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I believe part of reconciliation and peace is understanding myself as well as possible – since I can’t strengthen or change what I don’t understand.In that light, the following posted today on my personal blog:
Personally, I would put the “line” between a Skeptical Doubter and a Faithful Doubter as the emphasis on the adjective/noun relationship in each phrase. In other words, a skeptical believer is a believer, first and foremost. The skepticism is a characteristic of the believer. A faithful doubter, on the other hand, is a doubter, first and foremost. The faithful is a characteristic of the doubter.
To make this real and practical, try the following:
Quote:If someone makes a claim or a statement that sounds different than what you believe, what is your first reaction – your “gut instinct”?If it is to accept that there is or might be some validity in it and then look for that validity – even if you have to discard some of it to find it, you are a skeptical believer. You believed there was good in there somewhere, and you were willing to exercise skepticism to sort through the incorrect to find the good.
If, however, your immediate reaction is, “That’s a bunch of crap,” you are less likely to search through it for a nugget of gold. You still are “faithful” to what you believe, but you aren’t very open to finding insights among the ashes – to wade through the grime to find the sublime. Your “faithfulness” keeps you anchored to your current truth, but it keeps you anchored away from any other truth.
(Btw, I think you can be a temple-recommend holding Mormon and be a faithful doubter – or be an atheist and a skeptical believer. Neither title automatically endows one or the other with any degree of “truth”. That is a completely separate discussion.)
How does one go about being an atheist and a skeptical believer? What is the skeptical belief in? If I understand the post correctly you are using the words “believer” and “doubter” to label how others accept opinions and information given to them by other people. Is this correct? Old-Timer wrote:To make this real and practical, try the following:
Quote:If someone makes a claim or a statement that sounds different than what you believe, what is your first reaction – your “gut instinct”?If it is to accept that there is or might be some validity in it and then look for that validity – even if you have to discard some of it to find it, you are a skeptical believer. You believed there was good in there somewhere, and you were willing to exercise skepticism to sort through the incorrect to find the good.
If, however, your immediate reaction is, “That’s a bunch of crap,” you are less likely to search through it for a nugget of gold. You still are “faithful” to what you believe, but you aren’t very open to finding insights among the ashes – to wade through the grime to find the sublime. Your “faithfulness” keeps you anchored to your current truth, but it keeps you anchored away from any other truth.
It would greatly depend on who was making the statement. Someone I trust I am going to accept it. Somone or organization who has a history of hiding the truth I am a total skeptic
I think this is a trick question because it would depend on the standard being analysis. Perhaps this whole question is backasswards. I would say that I am absolutely a skeptical believer — because I have listened to many different beliefs and religions, and I “skeptically” believe in a lot of what they have to say – including mormonism. Yet my devout mormon family would claim I am a “faithful doubter”, because they are basing EVERYTHING off of the Mormon Standard of belief. On the other hand, I would certainly say that most TBM types are the “faithful doubters” because they are only faithful to the Mormon Standard, and doubt almost everythingthat’s deviates from that belief system without even proper analysis. In fact, I think it is a SIN 
just me wrote:How does one go about being an atheist and a skeptical believer? What is the skeptical belief
in? If I understand the post correctly you are using the words “believer” and “doubter” to label how others accept opinions and information given to them by other people. Is this correct?
I would say Atheism is the belief there are no gods. So one could substitute christian or atheist and have the same question about how they approach such beliefs.I also don’t think the question is about what you think others do about opinions and information, but what do
youthink about things you hear from others(that’s just how I read it). I guess I start by thinking if I’m a doubter or a believer…then describe what kind of doubter or believer am I. In that line of thinking, I continue to believe there is good in mormonism and it is something that benefits my life and my family. From there, I think my adjectives of what kind of believer changes from time to time based on where I’m at. I am sometimes a(n):
-Angry believer
-Bored believer
-Skeptical believer
-Confused believer
-Ambivalent believer
-Sad believer
-Argumentative believer
-Faithful believer
-Sinful believer
…but I have continued to believe in the journey I’m on.
Quote:I also don’t think the question is about what you think others do about opinions and information, but what do you think about things you hear from others(that’s just how I read it).
Alright, I see that. I have pondered this quite a bit this evening, and neither of these boxes will work for me today. I guess I will second this
Quote:-Angry believer
-Bored believer
-Skeptical believer
-Confused believer
-Ambivalent believer
-Sad believer
-Argumentative believer
-Faithful believer
-Sinful believer
Heber13 wrote:just me wrote:How does one go about being an atheist and a skeptical believer? What is the skeptical belief
in? If I understand the post correctly you are using the words “believer” and “doubter” to label how others accept opinions and information given to them by other people. Is this correct?
I would say Atheism is the belief there are no gods. So one could substitute christian or atheist and have the same question about how they approach such beliefs.I would say that atheism is non-belief. No belief in any gods. That is why I figured this must not be about God.
Quote:I also don’t think the question is about what you think others do about opinions and information, but what do
youthink about things you hear from others(that’s just how I read it). That is what I read, too. I just toally massacred my attempt at rewording it.
😆 I was a gullible believer. I’ve always believed everything everyone says. I believe everything my leaders told me. I believed way too much from books, Internet and TV. I have to struggle NOT to believe the crap people spew. Things that are proved false I can usually stop believing (now), but other than that I still wonder about a lot of things. I struggle not to believe conspiracy theories-they have as much “evidence” as anything else out there.
Now that I know just how easily people can rewrite history and “facts” can be altered. Well, I just don’t know what to believe anymore. So I don’t believe anything as a final truth or final say. Everything everyone ever says is merely there view of the world. That’s cool. That is how it should be.
So now I am a skeptical nonbeliever. I don’t even really believe my own beliefs. I don’t even believe that sentence I just wrote. I don’t believe anything at all. Everything is nuanced and paradoxical.
I think I’m a faithful doubter. I have a testimony, which keeps me coming back to Church, but I get doubts when I see the behavior of the members and sometimes the leaders. Or when it gets to be too much of an emotional trial to interface with other people at Church who behave in ways that I find offensive.
I’m not talking about day-to-day conflicts, I’m talking about things like members distributing nasty notes to the Ward leadership about you as a leader. Or, sometimes, what I feel are questionable decisions made by the leadership that seem to do more harm than good.
Someone once said that if the Church wasn’t true, they wouldn’t bother to come. That’s me. I would’ve left permanently years ago if I didn’t have spiritual experiences that convinced me this is where the Lord wants me. There are times I wish I was free of it actually, but I keep coming because of the spiritual experiences I’ve had.
But don’t mind me, I’m in a difficult period right now, and turning to forums like these helps me air my feelings in a safer environment than Church.
Brian Johnston wrote:I’m a skeptical doubter. I am skeptical about my doubts
I love this statement Brian!!!
I think I’m just about all of the above types mentioned depending on my mood
I’m an ambivalent agnostic. I vacillate between doubt and hope with excursions to anger, fear, flow and transcendence. I don’t believe in one true church or that the nature of God is either knowable or can be communicated among human beings limited to space and time. I have faith in the potential of community and the power of compassion. Wow, thanks for that Dathon. It is a very thought provoking response for me personally. I relate to a lot of what you say. I think it’s very human and in fact healthy to recognize when we take journeys through the entire spectrum (or a good part of it) of faith and question. I also don’t believe that the true and complete nature of God can be understood or communicated by humans. However, I do think we can properly recognize certain Godly attributes, and relish our experience with them. Things like love, compassion, forgiveness, the gift of life, knowledge, etc.
I do believe there is one true church
for me personally, and that another would not fill the unique requirements of my specific situation quite as well. I also have faith in the potential of community, and see progress – even evolution – of community toward a greater good and a clearer understanding, however slow that progress may be.
FWIW I see myself as a questioning believer – the only type of believer that can be a true or authentic Mormon in my book.
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