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First, I don’t want to make this a tithing discussion. The thread title was from a comment a fellow mormon said to me when I mentioned I was having faith issues regarding tithing. “God gave you all that you have, and all he asks is 10% in return” I’ve heard this before, and it never quite sticks. The thought that God gave me all that I have seems to imply that God didn’t give me all that I do not have. If he is the only one that decides who gets what, then he is the person who decides who doesn’t get what. Hopefully this is making sense. I guess i have a problem with that because if God is dividing up all the resources and riches on this planet, then he is not doing a very good job in my view. Why does the average American make $45,000 per year while the average Mongolian makes $1000. Why do American kids struggle with overeating while African kids starve to death by the thousands. Does God hate Africa and South America and Love Australia, North America and Europe? It seems like there is no way that God can be directly behind this and evidence seems to point more to luck, race and greed being the primary deciding factor in my view.
This would also seem to have farther reaching effects. If God is not responsible for all that we have, then how would paying tithing be responsible for blessings? Can fasting help you get a job? Can praying help you sell your house?
Thoughts?
Brown wrote:This would also seem to have farther reaching effects. If God is not responsible for all that we have, then how would paying tithing be responsible for blessings? Can fasting help you get a job? Can praying help you sell your house?
The catalyst for my faith journey was the difficulty I was having squaring the idea of an interventionist God with certain devastational sorrows in my personal life. There is a paradox between agency, divine intervention, and random chance. Where they meet and what happens when they interact is open to personal interpretation. In my life going forward, I see prayer, fasting, and tithing as tools to mold my inner landscape rather than attempt to influence the external one.Seeing God as “us” helps me answer your questions much more than seeing God as outside of and separated totally from us. Iow, what we blame on God is our own fault, when it comes right down to it – and until we recognize and truly treat each other as spiritual brothers and sisters, “God” fails. Thus, I see life as a training ground for Godhood (or an eternal progression toward Godhood, whatever wording rings most true) – and I also am open completely to the idea that there are multiple opportunities (“eternities”) to get there.
I understand why the Church can’t teach that as directly as I just said it, but I believe the concept and principle is central to our theology.
So, I would say:
Quote:God gives us all that we are, and all he asks is everything we can become.
I think the tithing commandment and the way we teach it in SS, such as the title of this thread, is false and a man made, not divine revelation from god. Just rhetoric and nice sales pitch. I agree with Cwald on this one now. It seems to me to be a commandment that is given blanket-wise, without consideration for individual needs. observant wrote:“You can’t afford to cheat the Lord.”
Poetic!
The problem that some of us have is that you can look at this more than one way.
Some may look at it as quoted:
Quote:“You can’t afford to cheat the Lord.”
While others will look at it as:
Quote:“You can’t afford to cheat the Church”
Depending on your perspective, the phrase has MUCH different power and meaning.
Brown wrote:…The thread title was from a comment a fellow mormon said to me when I mentioned I was having faith issues regarding tithing.
“God gave you all that you have, and all he asks is 10% in return”I’ve heard this before, and it never quite sticks. The thought that God gave me all that I have seems to imply that God didn’t give me all that I do not have. If he is the only one that decides who gets what, then he is the person who decides who doesn’t get what…It seems like there is no way that God can be directly behind this and evidence seems to point more to luck, race and greed being the primary deciding factor in my view…Thoughts? I could see the 10% amount making more sense as not being a completely unreasonable sacrifice if people could really spend all their income any way they want. However, when people already need to pay so much toward their rent/mortgage, taxes, car payments, groceries, and other necessary bills I don’t think it’s really fair to expect them to pay 10% of gross or even net income. So even if we assume that God gave me everything I have, 10% of gross income still seems completely out of proportion compared to what I really have left after I pay all my bills. There’s no way I could feel good about handing over nearly as much as they are asking for because it seems so excessive and manipulative (2 Corinthians 9:7). If I really wanted to get a temple recommend again I would pay much less than this expected amount and wouldn’t feel guilty about it either and I would also try to send it directly to the Church so no one in the ward would know how much I paid.
One problem I have is the question about whether giving money to the LDS church equals giving money to God. That is implied in the title of this thread.
I agree that giving is a good thing, in general.
If God has the power to give me everything I have I do not see him having a need to get 10% back. The real issue is not God it is the church. The church needs money to operate and it drags God into it to pump up the donations. We should just be honest about tithing and say it is to help the church function and get away from the rhetoric about God blessing and punishing you for your adherence to it. Nice thread Brown I think its funny when someone thinks that giving money to the church = giving money to God!
I believe that I am giving back to God whenever I do as I believe He or She would. I’m giving back to God when I provide my family with shelter, food, clothing, education, safety, transportation, opportunity to improve and better help and serve others! Therefore, about 70-80% or more of my income after taxes goes to Gods purposes. I will probably never again give 10% of my income to the church, but I will give what I think is my share of the up-keep. However I will continue with the goal of giving as close to 100%
to Godas I am able. f4h1
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