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Great post from Kevin at BCC. One that has been discussed often in the Bloggernacle, but well said. http://bycommonconsent.com/2015/01/21/i-know-the-church-is-true/ I read it earlier, it’s a definite Amen-er. It’s a message I would love to hear louder through the official grape vine. I really liked it – and I once gave a Sacrament Meeting talk that was quite similar about things I feel comfortable saying I know and things I only can say I believe or in which I have hope. It was very well received. One of the comments included: Quote:Elder Anderson told the youth in the last conference to “Consider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek.”
That sounds a lot like something I have a vague impression of. Was there some psychology experiments that showed the personal beliefs of students were affected by public declarations that those students were asked to make? The idea is you come to believe what you hear yourself say, especially when spoken in a public setting.
Interestingly, this is why I don’t believe in the “untestimony” bearing that so many disaffected love to engage in. Being in F&T meetings for so long has taught me that “a testimony is found in the bearing of it” basically = confirmation bias. Once you say something, you begin to believe it is true, and that’s simply human nature. Quote:Faith crises are a thing these days, especially among our youth. And yet, increasingly, we’re not even allowing them room to have faith.
Really like this article and this quote in particular. I recently heard of member of our stake presidency tell our youth “it’s not a think-amony it’s a testimony.” Everybody, especially kids, should feel comfortable enough to say they are growing, evolving, or changing their belief system as they mature.
Roadrunner wrote:Everybody, especially kids, should feel comfortable enough to say they are growing, evolving, or changing their belief system as they mature.
Absolutely! I think you nailed it right there. Kids need to be able to voice their own thoughts and opinions, and not be afraid that their parents will disown them for disagreeing. My son (9) announced at the dinner table a few weeks ago that he believes in the Roman Gods. Instead of laughing it off and teasing him about it, we had a 1/2 hour discussion about what HE believes and why he believes those things. It was great! I teach a Primary class, so I love seeing kids figuring out their faith a little bit at a time. When I’m asked to give a talk in church, I usually talk about something that is non-religious (our bishopric doesn’t assign topics), like teaching your kids the value of hard work, or showing respect to our wives, or something like that. But, when I end with the ‘testimony’, I always say, “I believe….”, instead of “I know…”, or “I pray that..”, instead of “I know that…”.
I remember a priesthood lesson about faith, and the teacher asked how our faith can grow to become a perfect knowledge. He asked how I’ve done this in my life, and my response was that I haven’t, because I don’t believe it’s possible for any of us to have a
perfect knowledgein this life. Some of us might have more or less faith than others, but none of us have a perfect knowledge. He didn’t like that answer! 😆 I really liked Elder Holland in his talk “Lord, I believe” He talked about how faith and belief should be celebrated. Yet even he near the end of his comments invited those that can only believe to lean on his knowledge.
Elder Holland must be in difficult spot. Would the church be ready for an Apostle to say that they believe in x, or have faith in x, or have hope sufficient to act on x – or would that be too radical … too uncertain for an apostolic witness.
Roy wrote:I really liked Elder Holland in his talk “Lord, I believe”
He talked about how faith and belief should be celebrated. Yet even he near the end of his comments invited those that can only believe to lean on his knowledge.
The last testimony I gave I read a few words from this talk and made it clear I was OK with those that say “I know” (even though it does bother me, but I need to respect their option to say this) and I proceeded to say that I believe … and invited those that could only say “I believe” to come up and not be intimidated by those that “know”. Only one person followed me with “Well, I am one of those that ‘believes’ ” I was glad he did, but given all the rest of the testimonies where “I know”, it was a bit extra hard to hear that. Kind of like they were saying, “I don’t know about you and your silly ‘belief’ stuff, but I KNOW.” sigh
Roadrunner wrote:Quote:Faith crises are a thing these days, especially among our youth. And yet, increasingly, we’re not even allowing them room to have faith.
Really like this article and this quote in particular. I recently heard of member of our stake presidency tell our youth “it’s not a think-amony it’s a testimony.” Everybody, especially kids, should feel comfortable enough to say they are growing, evolving, or changing their belief system as they mature.
I really liked that part too. I do agree, the overuse of “know” can subtly alter thought, expectation, etc.
I don’t think I’d try to call attention to my deliberate use of belief, hope, think, etc. I think I prefer the more passive approach of deliberately using the word and let people hear/remember what they want to hear/remember. I could say “believe” but for most it will likely register the exact same way as if I had said “know.” I might be open to a softer approach. “Experience has taught me that the more I learn the less I seem to know, but I believe…”
Had a similar incident to Looking Hard’s, but it wasn’t me bearing the testimony. The first person to get up last F&T mtg bore a sincere testimony about how he doesn’t know, but loves the church. How he left and came back because of this love, but doesn’t have any “I know” experiences, and didn’t come back to church because of any new knowledge, but lives and serves within what beliefs he has. This was followed by an old timer who opened his Doctrine and Covenants and recited him the answer to how he could “know.” Which was followed by several other testimonies, including all the missionaries bearing that they did indeed know the church was true. So I guess it had the inadvertant benefit of strengthening the faith of our ward? Honestly, I didn’t even know what a testimony really was until halfway through my mission when my companion and I were invited to hear the public testimony of one of our not so serious investigators. She was a Christian and was going to be giving an informal testimony at a christian fellowship for youth. It wasn’t an attempt to convert us or argue with us, it was something they do once in a while to tell their story. I was interested to see how other Christians do this so I went–and it was a true definition of a testimony, how she was asked by some kids at school if she had let Jesus into her life, and how she prayed about it at a track meet behind a tree and felt elated, like she was floating, and how she had never felt an overflowing feeling of love like that up until that point. And how she decided she believed in Christ and wanted to follow him. years later, that’s what she was doing. Absent were the “I knows” and exclusive remarks. I was uplifted and influenced by this experience. Sure, she may be able to say that she knows the savior lives and loves her, but it would have made sense in her context. No “well, if I felt good about jesus, then I know that it must follow that the bible is inerrant and that my church is the true one.”
If I were to have formatted my testimonies after her pattern, mine would have gone something like this: “I was born into the LDS church, and taught throughout primary that it is the one and only true church. Then when I was a teenager I followed Moroni’s promise to see if the BofM was true and got no answer. Later in college I prayed about it and heard something say “you already know it is true so why are you asking me about it?” That experience inspired me to try and go to church every Sunday, prepare lessons at the last minute, read my scriptures once a week, and try not to watch R rated movies.”
I was pleased to see though, in the F&T mtg that a dad and his four kids got up, and each kid bore his or her testimony, saying what the dad was whispering in their ear–each started with “I want to bear my testimony, I love the church…”
🙂 🙂 🙂 Orson wrote:One of the comments included:
Quote:Elder Anderson told the youth in the last conference to “Consider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek.”
That sounds a lot like something I have a vague impression of. Was there some psychology experiments that showed the personal beliefs of students were affected by public declarations that those students were asked to make? The idea is you come to believe what you hear yourself say, especially when spoken in a public setting.
That is very frightening. When I heard I couldn’t believe it and when I read the talk I still had a hard time with it. I told my therapist about and she was astounded. When I just now read it my gut tightened up.
LookingHard wrote:Roy wrote:I really liked Elder Holland in his talk “Lord, I believe”
He talked about how faith and belief should be celebrated. Yet even he near the end of his comments invited those that can only believe to lean on his knowledge.
The last testimony I gave I read a few words from this talk and made it clear I was OK with those that say “I know” (even though it does bother me, but I need to respect their option to say this) and I proceeded to say that I believe … and invited those that could only say “I believe” to come up and not be intimidated by those that “know”. Only one person followed me with “Well, I am one of those that ‘believes’ ” I was glad he did, but given all the rest of the testimonies where “I know”, it was a bit extra hard to hear that. Kind of like they were saying, “I don’t know about you and your silly ‘belief’ stuff, but I KNOW.” sigh
One of the many reasons I stay is through my faith evolution I have come to take ownership in my church, it became not the church I belong to, but
mychurch. I want to affect change from the inside, and there is too much good not to be involved. You reminded me of either grant palmer or Richard bushman who said that when you’re giving a talk you have a captive audience, and can say what you want (though that might be the last talk you’ll give)
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