- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I was hoping to give my newborn a name and a blessing recently, but it seems my lack of belief in the BoM as a historical document makes me unworthy….. Bishop Roulete???
😥 brit-exmo wrote:I was hoping to give my newborn a name and a blessing recently, but it seems my lack of belief in the BoM as a historical document makes me unworthy…..
Bishop Roulete???
😥 Certainly. It’s worse than the postcode lottery. I shared many of my doubts with the branch president and he called me as the Branch Mission Leader two weeks later. “Go figure” as our American friends like to say.
Maybe you should send him this and tell him to get in line with an apostle:
Quote:
Elder Holland, 2007, PBS interview for ‘The Mormons’:PBS: [You say] there are stark choices in beliefs about the origins of the book. Explain why there’s no middle way.
Elder Holland: … If someone can find something in the Book of Mormon, anything that they love or respond to or find dear, I applaud that and say more power to you. That’s what I find, too. And that should not in any way discount somebody’s liking a passage here or a passage there or the whole idea of the book, but not agreeing to its origin, its divinity. …
I think you’d be as aware as I am that that we have many people who are members of the church who do not have some burning conviction as to its origins, who have some other feeling about it that is not as committed to foundational statements and the premises of Mormonism. But we’re not going to invite somebody out of the church over that any more than we would anything else about degrees of belief or steps of hope or steps of conviction. … We would say: “This is the way I see it, and this is the faith I have; this is the foundation on which I’m going forward. If I can help you work toward that I’d be glad to, but I don’t love you less; I don’t distance you more; I don’t say you’re unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can’t make that step or move to the beat of that drum.” … We really don’t want to sound smug. We don’t want to seem uncompromising and insensitive.
I am very sorry to hear this. I know that this would tear my heart out. I have recently been reading the handbook instructions about performing ordinances and know that BOM historicity is not in there. However I don’t believe the SP would overturn the bishop’s decision even if it was inappropriate.
The handbook did mention an option of standing in the circle even if you aren’t permitted to act as voice. I know it is crummy consolation and I am hesitant to even bring it up, but I wonder if that might provide a way for you to be involved.
I just don’t want this event to go by without you.
What I do in my home is my own business and between myself and the Lord. I give my kids father’s blessings at home all the time. One that requires a Bishop’s authorization is a crap shoot though — who knows what he will do…. Roy wrote:…
The handbook did mention an option of standing in the circle even if you aren’t permitted to act as voice. I know it is crummy consolation and I am hesitant to even bring it up, but I wonder if that might provide a way for you to be involved.
I just don’t want this event to go by without you.
I would not do this. I did once…won’t do it again.
It’s your kid. I would simply wait until they give you permission. I’ve done that before and it’s surprising how quickly they find you “worthy.”
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Simple, procedural question first, just to inform my response a little more: Do you have a current temple recommend? I think I know the answer to that question, but I am too lazy to go back and find the answer and don’t want to assume based only on your moniker.
If so, the Bishop is WAY out of line – so, like cwald said, wait until the issue is important to them, if you want it to be public, or go straight to the Stake President – knowing he might or might not intervene and recognizing the potential political ramifications if you take that route. If not, or if you don’t want it to be public (or don’t care), do it privately at home as a father’s blessing. No mention of Priesthood or PH authority is necessary for that.
It’s a wonderful concept, so do it however you are able and feel comfortable.
I was just reading this part in the handbook the other day, and the bishop does have some leeway there since it’s not a saving ordinance. He can deem you worthy to do this without a TR. He actually could even give you permission to baptize (but not confirm). Tell him you resolved your problem and have no issue with the Book of Mormon and would like to bless the child. You don’t have to believe the BoM was a historical document to be worthy to hold the priesthood. You could come to realize it is the Word of God, without any historical relevance whatsoever…pretty much like the rest of most of our scripture. It is not intended to be a historical document. That may be some serious issue to your testimony and something that takes a while to work out how to believe while having doubts… but in the mean time, the baby needs to be blessed and there is no requirement you have to believe it is literally the history of anything in order to want to bless your own child.
What would his reaction be?
He might ask, “Do you believe the Book of Mormon is true?” (that can be answered without any discussion on history.) If you have doubts, you can always quote Mark 9:24 and say you believe, but pray for more faith. There is no requirement for certainty, only a hope and desire to learn more.
Like Ray said, I think he is out of line. You may have to help coach him, and when it involves your kids, I wouldn’t cave in easily. I would do it, even if it was in my own home, I’d not miss that once in a lifetime opportunity for your family.
This type of ecclesiastical abuse needs to end. It is cult-like.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
thanks for the feedback people, makes me think i am not going crazy… bit more background – so i met with the guy, and tried to keep the conversation on things we could agree on but he was insistent in understanding what i had ‘issues’ with, so i shared that i didn’t think the book of mormon was a historical document, i was carefull to stress that i do accept it as a good and inspired book, and that i think it contained teachings that can benefit me and my family, but his take away was that the beleif in the book of mormon as history is the foundation of everything and if you take that away it all falls apart. personally i feel that says more about the precarious position of his own testimony than mine but i didn’t go there!!!
so i said i was disapointed and that i thought he was out of step with the direction the church is going, and i used hollands recent talks as examples, but his view was the church’s doctrine never changes and so i am mis-interpreting what holland is saying.
i managed to catchup with the stake president and his response was almost the same as the bishops, and he said he has to backup the bishops decision. which is what i expected.
so i am now pausing for thought and considering my next move. i have said that child will not be blessed unless i do it, so its potentially a waiting game. my tbm dw is ok with the situation, but if it drags out she will more keen to get it done than wait. its all good timing though, as if i can get this sorted it will be in time for the baptisim of my eldest child who turns 8 next year, so the ground i am covering now will apply for that too.
brit-exmo wrote:his take away was that the beleif in the book of mormon as history is the foundation of everything and if you take that away it all falls apart. personally i feel that says more about the precarious position of his own testimony than mine but i didn’t go there!!!
Agreed… but we’ll be here for him when he needs it.
:angel: I’m sorry you are going through this, I feel for you. This is a bridge many have to cross, keep us informed.
Edit:
I didn’t fixate on the thread title before, but it says
Worthyto bless your children? I really don’t understand how whether or not someone believes in the historicity of the BoM translates over to their worthiness. Also – I’ve said it before but in a different context, if you have enough faith to want to bless your child you have enough faith to perform the ordinance.
I hate to hear about situations like this, since, as you said, it says FAR more about them than about you. I also think you did exactly the right thing. I hope it works out exactly like you want it to end – but you might want to consider a home blessing also as you wait for them to . . . be charitable, Ray . . . come to their senses and allow you to do it publicly.
brit-exmo wrote:… his take away was that the beleif in the book of mormon as history is the foundation of everything and if you take that away it all falls apart. personally i feel that says more about the precarious position of his own testimony than mine but i didn’t go there!!!
that is exactly right…what he says is about him and his testimony. It does not mean that is the only way to view it. I like your approach to it.Sorry to hear it went into a holding status. Perhaps as time passes, they will soften their position. I hope so.
When I was called as Bishop, I told my SP that I had some problems with the historical aspects of the BofM. He said that was not part of the TR questions, and I was worthy to be bishop. Also, since a baby blessing is not a saving ordnance, just do it yourself with your family at home. It won’t be recorded “on the records of the church”, but will be just as effective in providing the comfort for your family.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.