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If it were a given, everyone would do it and we wouldn’t need doctors or dating websites. When people do not win the cosmic lottery as planned, they may feel guilt or lose their faith. If there is a promise on God’s end at all, the reward would likely be in the next life. The results are too inconsistent in this life to be more than confirmation bias in my opinion. Maybe others have had better luck. I’ve been on anti-depressants off and on most of my adult life. I think they help with spiritual things to a degree. I do find them very flattening emotionally though. Sometimes I wish I were more emotionally sensitve. Stimulants tend to bring back some emotion for me when taking an SSRI though. As you know, bipolar spectrum disorders are a lifetime affair. Even people who aren’t bipolar will feel random impulsive urges that could be misconstrued as the Spirit telling them to do something. Being bipolar, the odds of having some really good “spiritual” experiences are very high during a manic or hypomanic state when you feel on top of the world. Keep that in mind when you are seeking a much softer answer. Don’t expect that same feeling of joy you might have experienced before. If you’re looking for a spiritual experience, I would focus on God himself at first and try dealing with mormon specific stuff later. And I don’t mean to discount any experiences you may have had, I’m sure some of them were special. I just bet that you felt them far more strongly than most could imagine.
In regards to the statement about the bishop quitting his drugs, I think people who don’t need drugs can quit taking them and feel better. He probably just needed counseling and not drugs in the first place. A lot of people quit when they feel better, which is a mistake too. Bad Karma.
From what I have read, the people were out trying to get the bugs out of their crops and the seagulls would just eat them once they were out in the open. It’s typical seagull behavior to be attracted to human activity, but I would certainly feel blessed myself if I were the farmer and write about it. I think it was localized though… I think seagulls had plenty of reason to be nearby from the lake bonneville days and remaining wetlands.
Curbing elopers and byu students who feel guilty after a quick Las Vegas wedding/annulment from taking the easy road through the temple to “make it right”? I personally feel like the church is accusing the couple of immorality and imposing the 1 year repentance rule indiscriminately.
Proverbially speaking, I have just burned my house to the ground and dug out the foundation because it had too many weak spots making things uneven. I don’t hold any ill will toward the church. I hope that I can rebuild with better understanding before he goes through. If not, I will not have any problem sitting outside. I just feel like I had to separate myself and do a full reboot rather than just run out the door never to return. I’m all about doing my due diligence and collecting evidence. It is what I do for my career and it certainly didn’t help me when I started asking questions. Welcome! I can’t imagine what you have been through. Thanks for sharing. I whole-heartedly agree that the current model of asking and getting answers does not work well for those are emotionally “unique” (I hate the term mental illness). In my experience, antidepressants make me more likely to love things…especially if they hit a dopamine transmitter. I think it is near impossible to “feel the spirit” when depressed. I personally compare it to feeling like whale poo on the bottom of the deepest trench in the ocean the odds of light reaching you aren’t good short of a miracle. I wish God would make an exception for the emotionally unique to help them feel things like other people could. However, not even people who are “normal” (normal is relative right?) can feel the Spirit at times or get answers to prayer. Don’t beat yourself up about it.
I also view life from the angle that genetic variability is required to ensure the survival of the human species on a wild planet. The result of that variability is a certain percentage of people will have mental illness, congenital disorders, or maybe even be so screwed up they do not even live to be born. I look at this as not as a failure on the part of God, but a requirement to ensure humans can survive in a natural world. We have to have variability or a single disease could wipe us all out. For example, there are those who have developed unique antibodies that are being developed for vaccines etc. For those of us that are more mentally unique than others, the path can be more difficult but we can still find our place in society and live rewarding lives. (medication helps sometimes
I have a friend who was jockeying to be a CES teacher as well and ended up atheist. It works for him to a degree, but I think he would have been happier if he had tried to stay. I really hope than you can stick around here and find ways to work things out.
Go to lds family services or reputable therapist with your wife. You both need counseling and your bishop is likely not qualified to do so. I think if you tackle that beast with your wife your church issues will be largely resolved. Not working together and not going to counseling tends to result in divorce. My wife and I went to counseling for a few months before we worked things out. Don’t beat up on yourself…it never helps. We are all human and screw up. Some people are better at hiding it than others.
haha, I was too sore this morning from an extra long game of racquetball yesterday so I wimped out. I like to stir the pot and point out that we aren’t much different than the BOM folks on the rameumptum thing. On a high note, I got to spend the morning teaching my son letters and numbers so he’ll be able to read on his own in a few months. My only rough spot in the interview would relate to the prophet, seer and revelator question. I do like President Monson, but I have enough questions about good old Joe Smith that I don’t know that I would consider him as having the keys of the restoration etc. I do respect them in their office of leadership though. I otherwise live the gospel and sustain the church leadership. haha, you are the search master Ray. I’m not really so mean to people in my mind while people are up there. The meeting does get annoying sometimes though….even for someone who doesn’t have hard questions.
Isn’t home teaching a calling you have to accept? I just got assigned a few families a couple months ago. Not to hijack the thread, but I feel like I’d be a liar going in their home to teach them. I’d rather mow their lawn to show that I like them….or let their kids play with mine at the park. I think how much you reveal about your past depends on the level of emotional intimacy in the relationship. If you can get to the point where you can share ANYTHING comfortably, then by all means let the spouse know. There’s a lot of things I would just not want to know, even if my spouse felt like talking about it. In my case, I’m the evil one. I’m sure a lot of us have heard the “I wanted to be married to a strong priesthood holder” line. The only “fun” activities that I could think of that are against the rules would involve more than one partner…I don’t think I’m missing out on the drama there. I’m pretty sure you and your spouse could work things out behind closed doors for any other “fun” you may need. 
Emotional affairs for women tend to be worse than sexual affairs for men as far as the outcome goes… Your post really strikes a sensitive nerve for me. I’ve watched people divorce and I can see how my current lack of faith is straining my own relationship. As a bit of encouragement, I had the unfortunate opportunity of having a front row seat while my father in law got divorced because he looked at porn….only because his wife was disinterested in other activities. Rather than help, she just condemned him. She eventually just decided he was the source of her problems and left. He was severely injured emotionally. Afterwards, I watched him stand up tall, see a counselor to undo the damage his wife caused, and he found someone else and remarried. This new lady is everything his former wife wasn’t. They are a near perfect match for each other. Sometimes the horrible emotional pain of divorce can really open up new opportunities for happiness that you didn’t know existed. I can still tell that he hurts from the divorce all of these years later, despite his remarriage. That pain will probably never go away, but he is far happier with his new life. I don’t think he could have handled it as well without the support network that the church provides. Don’t leave potential emotional support behind. You might even be able to get the bishop to set you up with a counselor if you need.
On a side note, are you in Utah? You’re young and I have a 22 year old sister in Provo who hates church too
Welcome. Fast and testimony meetings make me want to throw up. I found a fun testimony (thankamony) bingo sheet to fill out to cope. Sure it is irreverent… I love to stir the pot too. It is just my way of dealing with things. I’ll put in my free opinion, you’re probably getting what you’re paying for as I’m new here too. Have you read the articles on the main website? I found them to be helpful. Be objective with anti-mormon content. It is often tainted and twisted by biased people.
I learned a valuable lesson from my grandpa. He would put out his cigarette in front of the church and go in and sit down. Who cares what people think. You can shut them up with their own doctrine if you really need to. (The church needs to smell like smokers more often ya know) Don’t be ashamed that you left your mission early etc.
I have been much happier since I began to take the gospel on my own terms. I’m an evidence based guy like yourself and have felt tremendously better about the church by taking the approach of taking baby steps and finding what I feel good about. For example, if you think JS was entirely wrong about the book of Abraham, can you take his work as art instead? What if that art does make you feel closer to God? Does it matter what history says if it is effective? Maybe the whole book came from a stone in a hat
In general, I’m going through a lot of the same issues as you as are many others here. I look at the rules the church makes as guidelines to live a happier life. I have alcoholics in the family, I have seen adultery and fornication ruin lives, I have seen pornography get out of hand and destroy people, etc etc. Some of the rules really help us out, others are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Don’t give up, I’d like to hear more of your story in the forums.
NPR had the entire musical on their website a month or two ago. It has since been taken down (likely due to offended people). That song is one of the cleanest along with the Hello one and a few others. (Hello is on youtube as well as are all of the rest) I will admit I laughed…a lot…listening to the whole thing. But it does get really profane. My wife got offended in the Hello song…but she was raised hardcore mormon and can’t handle blasphemy or mockery very well. Hasa Diga Ebowai could get Samuel L Jackson to raise an eyebrow for a spilt second.
