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My time is limited, but I have been trying to do better. Thanks for the heads up to all of us. I lurked for many years before I ever posted. I love being able to bring a concern, question, or whatever else to this board. Always plenty of things to think about! Hawkgirl, I second Mom3! Standing ovation! :clap: :clap: :clap: Roy, I am absolutely aghast at what that mother needing childcare pulled off! I don’t think I could have kept my mouth shut from speaking it to her either. Your wife is probably a much better woman than I am!
My husband and I watched the video together tonight. It was hard to sit through it a second time. I brought up something to him that I had not even thought about until then. I’ve mentioned elsewhere how I feel we need our unique RS curriculum back. As a new convert, those lessons and the contributing comments from the sisters greatly impacted me. I learned much about being a mother and running a home from those lessons. Not the teamwork my husband and I perform together so much….we have learned that on our own, together. But I can remember specific lessons and comments and some of those centered around making your children responsible for their own stuff and yes, being able to say no. We no longer have that curriculum suited just to the females in the church. Our younger sisters do not have these lessons! We need our own curriculum back pronto! This younger generation coming up are going to be vulnerable! Hopefully, their mothers will teach them to apply boundaries, as I have done with my daughters, but new converts still have a need here too!
One other thing….I am not big on reinforcing people to be needy inconsiderate, etc. I like Roy’s idea of not being so easy going about last minute impositions or taken for granted assistance.
As far as I am concerned, the more discussion on this topic, the better! We could all benefit. I appreciate all the viewpoints, but I feel this video was guilty of demonstrating some manipulation as to women’s roles and expectations of women and service in the church. I am sure there are some vidoes out there doing that to men too. I stayed away from the suicide one because I felt it might be too simplistic since those thinking of suicide are usually in a very complicated state of mind. Some people on another site have expressed that because she was wearing a wedding ring there has to be a husband in the picture. Very sad if so since there wasn’t one mention of daddy anywhere in the video. I wondered if she was supposed to be a young widow and her husband had the foresight to make sure he had great life insurance.
I thought a lot about Roadrunner’s post and how good the video made he and his wife feel. I have always loved that quote by President Hinckley I do not like it being applied to a video like this.I wish we could all realize we do make a difference in each other’s lives and that there would never be a question about that. It was very rude to stand up her cousin/friend at the airport who might have been in need of her company too.
I wish the video could have been done in such a way as to show her being of service and even having her own spirits lifted by helping others and yet also show her balancing, setting boundaries, being flexible, thinking outside the box and replenishing herself along the way. What a great example that would be to her own children.
I so agree with Hawkgirl on her points, especially about her working sister being portrayed as being so self centered and insensitive. I look forward to Hawkgirl’s blog and the commentary on this topic.
MockingJay wrote:You’re right DJ. It can happen to either gender. I think generally, men are better at saying no without guilt than women are though. It took me until well into my 30’s and a traumatic experience to learn how to say no. It has made a HUGE difference in my emotional well being and my ability to serve others.
We aren’t taught this in the church. Just the opposite in fact. I remember sitting in a SS class one Sunday and the bishop said that if we’re feeling overwhelmed in our service and our lives, then we’re not doing it right, meaning that if we’re following the Savior, we shouldn’t feel overwhelmed. WHAT?!? I could almost hear some of the sisters thinking, “Oh no, if I feel overwhelmed, I’m bad.”
Exactly!
TataniaAvalon: Thank you for posting that link! From there I followed another one over to the Exponent. Others noticed the same thing and there is a great discussion going on now. Roy: “
If we can’t say no to anything then sometimes it is the people closest to us that suffer. If we give until we are empty, our family will often bear the brunt of our emptiness.”
Very good point!If we could all just get to the point where we recognize and express appreciation for services from everyone at church. So many times, it is “expected” and yet those in higher profile callings are praised so often.
Also, I think the mother in the video could use some flexibility training as well as boundary setting. Take the family with the newborn a pizza. Ask the mother dropping the little girl off if she minded if the little girl went along on errands. Point out to her sister that she was having a rough day herself and could she please listen for a few minutes. Let her son suffer the consequences of not having his project done as well as allowing her daughter to experience hunger for not being willing to eat what was prepared. If there was husband, where was he? Could he have given an encouraging phone call or text sometime during the day?
Thanks Harmony. I always like President Hinckley quotes, too. I just felt such a strong reaction when I saw it. This quick get together with her cousin was scheduled on the calendar. Not a person she could see any other time. I am not sure why the producers of the video used such an example. Her day was nonstop with giving to others and I feel it was a message to women to be willing to cancel their own important things to always take care of whatever popped up in the moment. I feel I have learned in my own life to take time to replenish myself too in order to be in better shape to serve others. Serving others is important. But Jesus also had an example of taking time away from people and pressing needs. I just wondered if I was the only one seeing the underlying message. RDS, I am so sorry your daughter and family are going through this. Hold your heads up and do what is right for her and for your entire family. Try not to let your energy be pulled off into worrying about others and what they are saying. You will need your energy for healing, which will take work. Silent Dawning, thanks for posting this link. I just spent way too much time reading the comments and they will make a person weep for what has been happening inside the church! I so hope someone from the church leadership circles reads those comments too! This is a real problem in the church that needs a world wide training broadcast from the top leadership. Too many local leaders believe boys will be boys, all kids get bullied, they just need to fight back, etc. Every person at church should feel safe. There is quote I’ve been trying to locate by Chieko Okasaki that states something about needing to feel safe to be able to feel the Spirit in church. Status and callings are very important to many in the church and that is also a contributing factor to bullying being overlooked so often.
mom3 wrote:Before my comment seems like we should hide – I am not suggesting that – I agree with
Quote:“Bad behavior unchecked will continue.”
I guess I just figure some divides can only be healed in time.
So yes bad behavior can sometimes be checked, but when it can’t and when you feel obligated to remain (whether that’s at work, at church, in school, in a volunteer spot) try lightening some one else’s day. It really does help you find peace.
mom3, thanks for giving more explanation. This brought to mind a friend who once told me there are the visible leaders and then there are the invisible leaders who quietly go about their work and make a difference. It sounds like that is what you and others did in that 18 year situation.
:thumbup: Gerald wrote:Thankfully, I have rarely experienced the kind of discourtesy that you describe in my callings. Whenever something negative happens within the context of my calling it usually due to thoughtlessness rather than meanness. I think within the Church so many us are busy with our own callings/volunteer efforts that it easy to lose sight of the efforts that others are also putting out.
That said, I also think it is okay to be human and acknowledge that few of us will continue in meekness and mildness while being kicked continually. My advice (which I confess I rarely follow) is to try and bring these issues to the attention of those in charge or even to the offenders themselves. A wise woman once said to me, “Bad behavior unchecked will continue.” Some people just don’t recognize what they do as bad behavior until it is pointed out. But this is easier to say than to do.
This is very true. Sometimes people are very fired up with their goals and overlook the impact on others.
mom3 wrote:My answer to this topic is a cheesy reply, but I have found for me it works. I have begun making sure I express appreciation to others – a lot. I can’t change them. But I can be the Me – I wish others to be. “
I like and agree with this totally.
“For years I believed and practiced the idea that every one of those instances required me to battle back, to fight, to gripe, to whine, to take the problem up the ladder. Eventually where would I run to. Nirvana, Utopia, Zion doesn’t exist. I can’t live on an island by myself. So yes – I know my boundaries, in those boundaries I try to give generously or participate kindly. But I also now try to turn The Dark Side to the Light. Even if it’s just saying “Hello” and meaning it.
The war ends when we want it to end.
And I like this. I guess, when I let the counselor in the bishopric know I absolutely could not work the time parameters out, that ended that war with my release. I was still able to say hello to this person and even be nice, but she will never know the stress she brought about with all this with other things, including serious health issues, going on in my life at the time. We can really damage each other in our church setting with the callings.
bridget_night wrote:Suddenly, I was told I could no longer use any outside sources to teach my lessons (only the 4 standard works and the Ensign). When I told them that GA’s quote Billy Graham and Mother Theresa and use outside resourses all the time, I was told that they are special and can do that. I asked them about the 13th article of faith which says that anything that is of good report or newsworthy, etc we should seek after and again I was just commanded to obey the new rule by the stake president. Well, I stepped down then because I felt I could no longer be myself and teach lessons by the spirit. It just pains me still at times that this is not the church I was brought up in.
I think this came from higher up than stake presidents since it seems to be prevalent in several areas.
mom3 wrote:I am with you on the cultural changes Bridget. I really am confused by the extent of the changes, too. I look back to my youth and wonder what happened to that church. It’s more than correlation or meetings – it’s lost an inspiration it once had.
I used to give talks all the time, I was in all the leadership – ward and stake. My words were well received, people would stay after and ask questions, other wards invited me to speak. Now – nothing. I was never told anything, but I listen to the Sunday repeats and realize, they will just move past me. That era has gone, at least for a while. It’s head pops up now and then, but as an organization, especially here in the U.S. we are a follow along crowd or be quiet. I miss our fire and enthusiasm.
I am right there with both of you. I wonder if the women notice this change more due to the discarding of RS curriculum unique to the sisters? I also wonder if the GA’s ever meant it to go so far or if it is an example of suggested changes coming down the line and each level piles on more and more requirements around the suggested change. Whatever is behind it, I think the spirit is being driven out of the church in many ways and I miss sacrament meetings talks and RS lessons that are more personable to the application of the gospel in the person’s life.
SunbeltRed wrote:Despite the authoritative nature of the church hierarchy, revelation was not reserved for the Prophet but was distributed to all members to have a voice and ownership in their own salvation; To create that connection to our Heavenly Father that can aid us in our own personal life as we live through mortality. Joseph’s role was not only to reveal truth, but to challenge the culture that had stopped believing in divine revelation.
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Great talk. I especially liked the quote above!
