[Agaetis]

DarkJedi wrote:

I once thought i couldn’t sustain the prophet, too. Then i figured out what sustain means. And is it really God’s commandment that we follow the prophet?

According to the church, following the prophet is God’s commandment.

http://www.mormon.org/beliefs/commandments

I would also venture to guess that part of Ezra Taft Bensons # 6 of the Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet is fairly obvious.

6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.

But isn’t this part of today’s issues? A bunch of powerful men or arms of the church all claiming gospel? Benson announced those fundamentals before he was prophet and it wasn’t very well received by Kimball. McConkie and Mormon Doctrine, obviously contriversial yet still taught today. Why isn’t the hand of the prophets inserting their voice in any of it?

[Agaetis]

DarkJedi wrote:

I agree with Ray here. Pres. HInckley never said one set of earrings was a commandment nor did he claim it was revelation. What it was quite obviously was his own opinion. It actually sickens me that so many members take every word said by the prophet and make them commandments, as if it were as you described (going into the Holy of Holies and having a conversation with the Lord).

I have to respectfully disagree. Mormon.org specifically states following the prophet is a commandment, and by re-reading Pres. Hinckley 2000 talk I do not think it’s an opinion piece. It’s a pretty brutal talk at some points.

DarkJedi wrote:

Frankly, I don’t believe the current prophet asks the Lord anything. I do like the Pres. Monson talks a lot about loving our neighbors, but I don’t think that’s really inspired, it’s just him giving a good message. We’re not going to hear him talk about any of the essays, it would shake the tree too much.

This I do agree with. I just think it’s insane that they can come out and admit some of our core doctrine isn’t true and somehow avoid the fact that our living prophet has nothing to say of the matter. For me it’s brought me to the conclusion that I can no longer sustain the leaders of the church and specifically the Pres. Monson. Which is a shame, I remember being so excited as a kid to listen to him during conference.

[Agaetis]

Old-Timer wrote:

He didn’t ask that. He said, explicitly and directly, he was sharing his own personal opinion. Members, being human and absolutists, turned it into a commandment.

“We” do that all the time. It is a “natural” tendency we are supposed to change, but is a hard one to eliminate – and it shows up in just about every aspect of life among mist people, inside and outside the church.

Sure I was being hyperbolic about entering the Holy of Holies, but it’s gods commandment for us to follow the prophet. By not following the prophets guidance and tattooing ones leg, are you not breaking the lords commandments?

I find it hard to swallow that people took is as Hinckley just doesn’t like tattoos or piercings. The prophet and the counsel of the twelve took a clear position on this. I’d suggest reading Pres. Hinckley’s 2000 talk one more time.

My real concern is no relevant revelation when so much is needed.

[Agaetis]

So I sat in Sunday School yesterday listening to the lesson and the teacher asked a question: what are some modern day commandments? People began to say things like, piercings, tattoos, food store, and so forth. This had me thinking… so the prophet enter into the Holy of Holies and walks out with “girls should only have one earring in each ear.” This seems like the God of Lost Keys testimony I hear every FS. Why is God finding your keys but didn’t save the life of my nephew after I prayed for his safety?

Here’s the thing. The story is JS directly translate the Book of Abraham from papyri using the power of God. Then the church used the PR department to announce that, nope, both church and non-church Egyptologists agree it’s not a true translation. Where is the prophet in all this? Why didn’t he author that essay saying he’s brought the matter before the lord and here is what the lord spoke? Then we add it to D&C right? Why is he asking the lord about women’s jewelry and not about our core doctrine of belief?

[Agaetis]

I’ll counsel you what not to do… discuss the Plan of Salvation! This is just a humorous family story that really affirms my belief I always was skeptical about doctrine even at a young age.

I must have been 8 or 9 when FHE was about The Plan and I could never fathom the whole thing. No one could really explain to me why my favorite teacher in school who was catholic, didn’t get to live with me us heaven. Even though I felt she was nicer to me than my mom. My older sister had issues with it as well and that FHE just didn’t turn out well. At about 14 we tried The Plan again for FHE. This time my sister was dating a non-member and was upset that if she chose to marry him they would never have an eternal marriage. After that my folks decided no more Plan of Salvation for FHE. I actually don’t remember any FHE’s after that until the singles ward.

To this day the family joke about FHE. Every time my sister mentions at a family dinner what they did for FHE I always ask how the Plan of Salvation discussions went and my parents will laugh.

[Agaetis]

I just had some things happen over the past few weeks that I’m a bit surprised with. One was I didn’t wear my garments at times when I normally would. It’s been super hot outside and we had some family photos taken by some friends. I wore some nice clothes with a suit coat and the temperature that day was 100 degrees. I chose to forgo them. Another instance was when I got home from work and had a few things to do around the house, wash the car, clean up the yard and garage. Again, it was hot but I would normally wear my garments. It totally felt liberating! But – I somehow felt I was going to a place a couldn’t come back from. I wasn’t expecting to feel guilt but I did. It was interesting to think about it in the terms of being brainwashed. I truly don’t believe my salvation is dependent upon garments but the lack of them definitely made me reevaluate.

The second instance was in the form of a priesthood blessing. My two year old son was sick with the flu for a few days and my wife asked me if I was comfortable giving him a priesthood blessing. I told her I wasn’t, but that we could pray for him together. She was fine with that and we did. To be honest, all during his illness I wanted to give him a priesthood blessing. I just don’t believe that I have extra keys from god to heal him. If the priesthood truly worked like that, why isn’t the cancer survival rate in Utah noticeable higher that the national average? Or sickness rates significantly lower among the LDS? I believe anyone has the power to comfort a child or individual who’s accepting of it, but not to heal based on the religion of the giver.

I feel like I’m lying to myself of I’ve been brainwashed. This isn’t going to be as easy as I’d hoped.

[Agaetis]

Welcome! While I didn’t live in California during Prop 8, the churches stance on gay marriage is really what lead me to having a faith crisis in general. That started my questioning the direction the church was going. Fine bunch of folks on here and I hope you and your family find what you’re looking for.

[Agaetis]

SunbeltRed wrote:

I often find myself politically in no-mans land. I would say I lean more moderate Libertarian. I fiercely believe that freedom of speech and worship is paramount and abhor authoritarianism in all its forms (even the smiley we are just here to help kind). I lean fiscally conservative, but socially moderate. Which puts me at odds with many conservative LDS, and at odds with the more big government progressive Mormons.

d

I gave up trying to find out where I fit in. I joked the other day to my wife about starting our own party called the “Logic Party”. She asked me if that’s a Star Trek thing. All-in-all I think people have the same political views no matter who you are. The term fiscally conservative kind of confuses me as I don’t know anyone who is fiscally “un-conservative”. I think everyone is fiscally conservative, we just don’t all agree on how to get there. Much like abortion issues, we all hate it, we just don’t agree on how to end it.

[Agaetis]

In Colorado politics never came up in church. Although I did work with a LDS Bishop that had a crazy story about his Stake President meeting with the local bishops to push the Mitt Romney thing, but I’ve always felt it was pretty clearly left out of Sunday discussions.

I haven’t found that to be the case in wards I’ve been in in Utah. My wife and I lived with my folks until we bought a place and their home teachers would come over and try to discuss a “call out”. Which I had never heard of until I researched it. In our current ward’s Sunday school it comes up fairly often with regards to LGBT. I don’t know many ward members outside of work, minus our neighbor who’s the high-priest group leader. He has a sticker of Calvin relieving himself on an Obama logo.

Surprising how in a state where most people are all in agreement they speak to have the loudest voice.

[Agaetis]

Let’s be honest, the church could exponentially increase it’s tithing revenue by removing the garment requirement. Either that or bring in Victoria Secret and Calvin Klein designers.

Multiple and replenish the earth… ‘am I right?

[Agaetis]

Deepthinker wrote:

Yes, I just let the conversation go. I didn’t feel the need to go further into things. Right now I’m just letting her lead any discussions about my own faith transition.

I always reinforce with my wife that she can ask me anything, at anytime, about my FC. I do make a point to talk about something I may have run across that day that might be testimony building, and mention it over dinner. An Uchtdorf quote always helps!

[Agaetis]

I’ll echo DarkJedi’s comment. For one, you’re in a safe place. Two, the advice given to me was to slow down a bit. I’m constantly flip-flopping on where I stand, and I quick decision won’t just cause me harm.

When I told my father about my faith crisis he showed me the following article. It may help you and your husband:

http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&a=3306” class=”bbcode_url”>http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&a=3306

I’m love the paragraph which state; “If they can’t find an open, candid, and supportive place to work through honest questions, that’s tragic,” .

[Agaetis]

Had a private tour of the Cathedral of the Madeleine this afternoon while I was there on business. Was there for over an hour and I have to say, it was very inspiring. It’s a bit shocking to see the contrast of our temples vs cathedrals. Our tour guide was wonderful and her area of expertise was symbolism. I certainly felt the spirit today.

For those of you or visiting Utah please go take a look. It’s open to the public.

[Agaetis]

DarkJedi wrote:

FWIW when I came here for the first time just less than a year ago, I had trouble with some of the TR questions, too. I am quite comfortable with my answers now, and in fact my current faith structure is in large part built around them.

1. Yes, I believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

2. Yes, I do believe in Christ’s role as Savior and Redeemer

3. Yes, I have testimony of the restoration

4. Yes, I sustain (support) the president, Q15, and other GAs and local leaders of the church

5. Yes, I live the law of chastity

6. No, my family relationships are great

7. No, I don’t affiliate or believe those who oppose church teachings or practices

8. Yes, I do strive to keep my covenants and attend my meetings

9. Yes, I sure try to be honest

10. Yes, I pay a full tithe and yes I live the WoW

11. Yes, I have not been married before and have no other financial obligations

12. Yes, I strive to keep my covenants and I wear the garment

13. No, no sins or misdeeds I believe need to be cleared up

14. Yes, I feel worthy to enter the temple

For each question, I likely do not believe exactly the same as the person asking the questions.

# 7 – Is there an issue here with supporting LGBT causes? I read in a previous thread a bishop referring to the a Proclamation to the World.

[Agaetis]

DarkJedi wrote:

SunbeltRed wrote:

1) Any quick advice or best practices for the middle way with small children? We have three kids (6,2,1). I prefer to raise them in the church, I want to give them the best perspective I can, I want to represent church history accurately and softly help them to be their own spiritual guides, but I want to respect their agency and let them come to their own conclusions.

2) And, I do have a stake calling. Not in the Stake Presidency, but I work with them a lot. I think my calling is what caused me to reexamine much of this, wondering if I can represent the SP but also be authentic. I feel like I have been able to reconcile having the calling I have with my new faith paradigm. I am temple worthy, I don’t plan on vocalizing any of the things I share here (although I have been revising messages and talks to sound more literal Mormon, but subtly changed to reflect my views). This may sound strange, but I feel like my calling may give me the opportunity to find and work with those with questions like myself and be able to connect and help them in a way that most active members would not understand or comprehend. I have already been able to help a good friend who shares many of my concerns.

Would love to get your thoughts.

-Sunbelt Red

1) Your kids are young – only one is actually in regular Primary lessons and that one is getting pretty basic stuff, although there could be stuff you disagree with. You (and your spouse) are primarily responsible for teaching your children the gospel, Primary is supposed to be there to help you. My kids were older when my FC started and do not know the depth of my questions and doubts, but I do talk to them about things like evolution and literalism of scripture stories as the occasions arise (my issues are mostly not historical). With a younger child there’s probably going to need to be a discussion about blurting out things like “My daddy says Adam and Eve aren’t real people” in class. I do believe that LDS.org is a good place to begin as the children get older – the essays are great and hopefully there will be many more by the time they are old enough to understand them.

2) I also have a stake calling (I’m sending you a PM). I think you’re on the right track – I also don’t vocalize my beliefs, I stick to standard teachings – although I do choose what to teach and not to teach and simply leave out that with which I don’t agree. Innuendo is great in this case. I frequently quote Pres. Uchtdorf, sometimes without actually saying so (like using “It is not that simple”) and look to see who seems to get it. I too, think you can be of help to others, and you should try to find the ones and do so – but be careful. In the cases I have been involved in (and I don’t want to reveal too much here) I do not share my own doubts/questions and I don’t ask the other people to – I mostly assure them it’s OK to have questions and doubts and that they have to find their own answers. I do share with them that I did not attend church for an extended period of time because of my doubts but I also tell them that’s not the answer – I mostly do that so they understand I have been where they are.

Good luck, keep coming back – I really do look forward to hearing more from you. We need people like you here and in your calling.

These are also question I’ll eventually need answers for as well. Thanks!

Quote:

I do share with them that I did not attend church for an extended period of time because of my doubts but I also tell them that’s not the answer – I mostly do that so they understand I have been where they are.

I read your introduction and don’t want to pry too much but do you feel your period of inactivity was beneficial to you? I had my inactive period, it wasn’t due to a FC and I didn’t have a family to consider. But do you think there might be some benefit to taking a break?

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