[Alex]

I actually think….that many ward members don’t quite know how to approach someone who looks, er, different than the typical attendee. There will be some regular members that look down on these visitors, but I really think that most see the possibilities of the gospel being of benefit to the new person. They just don’t know how to interact with them.

I know the answer is simple: treat them like you would any other person. But I think it’s difficult for some.

And I agree that there are way more “sinners” at church than we realize. Of course all of us are to a degree, but significant problems, doubts, and issues abound that don’t have an outward manifestation.

[Alex]

Ray, I acknowledged this is an issue that many will see from different perspectives….whether it was doctrine, practice, policy, opinion, etc. I won’t argue with your perspective, I like you too much and the premise of this forum to have meaningful discussions.

I will say that when I read the FP referring to the denial of PH using the word “doctrine” multiple times in their correspondence with the member, even that it was taught by JS, and bearing their testimony of its truthfulness, I have trouble with it given the importance of how doctrine has been defined in our faith. If later Church leadership disavow their statement it doesn’t make everything OK for me.

[Alex]

Old-Timer wrote:

It’s exactly what everyone here has been begging to be said – and there isn’t any white-washing, justification, obfuscation or soft-pedaling that I can see – none at all. It’s hard to imagine it being said any more clearly or strongly on the Church’s website.

While I do believe that there is a lot of honesty and openness with the content on lds.org, I do see some “soft-pedaling”….or rather, omissions to the history of this practice. Denial of the priesthood to Blacks is referred to as a “policy” on the website, but in a First Presidency Letter to a member about the issue in 1947 it is referred to as “doctrine.” And “doctrines” are referred by the FP in the exchange with the member as “either true or not true.” Sept 2013 Ensign even says doctrine comes through divine revelation to prophets.

One can argue that doctrines may change (can they?)….or that they can be true for a time, then change at a later time, I suppose. Maybe it’s true unless it isn’t? But the FP bore their testimonies of the truthfulness of this one. I can’t help it, to me it’s a disturbing omission to the topic on the Church’s website.

The scanned letters of the exchange were first brought to my attention on another board and the link is below.

http://mormonstories.org/other/Lowry_Nelson_1st_Presidency_Exchange.pdf” class=”bbcode_url”>http://mormonstories.org/other/Lowry_Nelson_1st_Presidency_Exchange.pdf

[Alex]

I see great value in service dogs. I hope you can bring the companion to church. However, and from my perspective, there are just two things I see as worth considering:

First, asking the ward leadership in advance for their consent. It saves any surprised looks or questions when and if you do come to church with the animal; and it allows you to hear any objections and respond accordingly. It also allows the leadership to understand the purpose and help the members understand this isn’t just a pet….and that they shouldn’t simply bring their favorite animal to church on Sunday because they see you doing it.

Second, being open to the possibility that bringing the dog to church would be less helpful to others than it is to you. In other words, if someone has extreme allergies or fears of (yes, even small) dogs…that you’re prepared to offer the kind of consideration you want from others. (But also being open to the fact that every ward and ward leadership is different–often imperfect–and it may be a “no” for some reason, even no good reason.)

If it’s me in the bishopric, I say no problem. Best wishes!

[Alex]

I can appreciate your honesty, even if this is an anonymous board, because you are being honest with yourself about how poorly you have reacted to her decisions and thoughts.

This is a supportive place that others can listen, share your grief, and help you to know you are human like the rest of us. And maybe you can glean some perspective from others’ experiences that may be similar to your own. I am probably like most on this board and feel hesitancy to respond to your post in any other way–you know your situation better than anyone. We are all facing similar challenges and sometimes it just helps to express what we are going through. It has helped me.

I can understand your doubts about what to do. And not wanting to do the wrong thing. You aren’t asking for advice and I’m not giving it (really)…but I do want to say that I’m sure any wife would appreciate knowing that you are sorry for how you had reacted in the past, that you love her, and that you support her no matter what.

I wish you the best and comfort.

[Alex]

Jmojave,

I feel where you are coming from. I’ve had similar personal issues lately….the best advice as others have said is to slow down.

But also Heber13’s advice not to conflate the issues of church and marriage. In my case, I think that my doubts about my marriage and love for my wife were related to my doubts about the church: She represents the TBM and in feeling misled by the Church, to some degree, I associate her strength in the church with “the church.”

There are other issues for me. No details here but that has really thrown a wrench into my life–so please don’t add any more issues to your own life, including resigning from the church. Because I slowed down, I’ve begun to see my own happiness and what it means in a different, more positive light. That includes really considering if I love my wife. We also have fun together, but do I really love her in ways more than I would love, say, my sister?

I slowed down and just recently realized I’ve been selfish. I am (not just “could be”) walking away a wonderful marriage. I am realizing that is a terrible mistake.

What helped in the beginning was talking with my wife. I was honest about my doubts about the church–something I hadn’t previously imagined I could do. She has been more understanding than I imagined, and although there have been tears and it was difficult, it was important to have a better degree of openness with her. I haven’t told her everything but she was “open” to my doubts about the church and not angry because she knew how serious it was hurting me inside. And because she realized there was a real chance we could separate, she was willing to be more tolerant.

Be careful whom you speak with about your doubts. And to what degree you share. But if your marriage is in jeopardy, your wife is the one person you might consider being a little more open with.

I wish you the best.

[Alex]

I also agree with Roy. Do your best now and you’ll probably find that things work out well–that you find the happiness in the gospel that you want. You’ll make some mistakes, but your heart is in the right place. Perspective down the road has a way of making the things we beat ourselves up about in the past somehow look insignificant and, often, forgotten.

Alex

[Alex]

Roy wrote:

Goldilocks wrote:

We went to a scripture study series with the 7th day Adventists.

I remember having a conversation with a 7th day Adventist when I was on my mission. I was amazed at the similarities of our religions (can’t remember the details now, of course) and seeing the major distinction being living prophets and the sabbath on different days of the week. Nice guy and we had a good, relaxed conversation over a jug of watermelon juice.

[Alex]

Roy wrote:

There is something to be said for being so close knit that scheduling a drop by isn’t necessary. […] Sometimes, we as Mormons do tactless things precisely because of how comfortable we are around each other.

In nearly every instance that the bishop (or bishopric) drops by unannounced, it’s to ask for something or find out information. Rarely to just be social. If that were the case, I wouldn’t mind…but it bothers me. To the extent that when I was in the bishopric, I always called ahead and always told the member what the purpose of the visit was (extend a calling to you, etc.) Next time the bishopric or SP comes by, I’m telling them “Sorry, I’m busy. You should call ahead because, in my opinion, it’s disrespectful to just drop in.”

When we did rescue visits, I refused if the secretary or someone else hadn’t made an appointment. Shocked the bishop a little when I told him I wasn’t going, but he already knew how I felt about just surprising members.

This is one of those practices that chaps my hide :crazy:

[Alex]

Glad you posted Ann. Sometimes there are great recommendations from the members here, other times there are simply great experiences to be shared that might serve others in some way….I like what Ray posted, just considering some things first.

I’d like to share my own experience and maybe it will be useful:

I’ve struggled with alcohol for many years. My wife found that I had been drinking a few times and it was hurtful to her. I felt guilty and like a bad person, accepted I was an addict, and promised (and meant) to keep the WoW fully….but then resumed, occasionally, and continued to keep it hidden.

Recently we had a serious discussion about my feelings about the church, our marriage, and use of alcohol. I no longer feel like an addict–and want to be able to make the choice. She accepted that, saying only that she wanted openness and honesty, no more dishonesty. It felt wonderful. To the extent that I haven’t gone out and started buying beer–it just isn’t that important to me. It was a weight lifted from my shoulders.

So my experience taught me that there are things we can disagree about as married couples–and it may be a difficult conversation to have, with tears and some heartache–but in the end the honesty and acceptance that can come from it may be worth it. Acceptance in either the form of “it’s OK” or acceptance in the form of “I don’t like it, but you have to make your own decisions”.

It may be that my wife and I don’t stay married because of other issues, things and beliefs that we have drifted too far apart from, but I believe we’ll have to make that decision together when the time comes.

[Alex]

Glad to have you here!

Yes, it’s fantastic to be in a group that doesn’t judge….in fact, it’s great to be in any relationship that doesn’t judge. I attended the recovery program for a year and it was a nice environment. I went to a couple AA meetings years ago–probably should have gone to more–and it was astounding how good it felt to be honest, open, and feel the love of others. I’m not one that normally needs that kind of support, but when you have something weighing on you and haven’t been honest, it’s a godsend.

Some of the things you are contemplating, as said by mackay11, you’ll have to figure out for yourself. But the support of this site and reading about others’ efforts to find their faith will be helpful. It has been to me.

Alex

[Alex]

I really liked this post. Despite the doubts and concerns I may have about the LDS Church, it puts things in a whole different perspective when I consider other Christian beliefs that create an image of God as uncaring, uninterested, and different than what the scriptures indicate to me.

I’ve always said to myself that if the LDS Church doesn’t contain the true gospel and authority of God, none other does…for many of the reasons you outlined. It makes me appreciate the LDS Church more. Thank you, again, for this wonderful post.

Alex

[Alex]

I really appreciate your post and update, Mackay11. I find so much of your current perspective in line with my own. Comforting and helps me find words and descriptions for my own thoughts. Thanks!

Alex

[Alex]

Years ago I remember watching a Pascua Yaqui indians perform an easter celebration….a mix of native and Catholic customs, beliefs. Interesting and sort of the same mix of two cultures and religions. I guess they made it “work” for them when the Spanish came….and reminds me of the other thread about Halloween in our own predominantly Judeo-Christian.

Not entirely related, but I had a Navajo friend in college. I remember something came up about the first day of school when we were kids, to which I remarked, “Yeah, my mom made me ride the bus for the first day of kindergarten–she didn’t even accompany me to school.” He replied, “I remember my first day. I was taken from my crying mother off the reservation to a boarding school a hundred miles away.”

Sort of made me put my own experience (even my entire experience as a child) in a different perspective.

[Alex]

I think these are in the category of sideshow or trainwreck–hard to look away from and fascinating to others. Perhaps even taking joy in the misery of others 😆

That said, I find it hard to watch a few minutes of these shows and turn the channel. Happens with shows like Survivor, The Bachelor, etc., although no polygamy involved–just the whole reality thing that is a bit intriguing. So I make an effort to not even start watching the beginning of any of these shows. I’m happier and don’t feel like I’m wasting my time :yawn:

[Author]

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