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Cadence– I think I agree with you on the heart of the matter. But also I think it’s noteworthy that the “house” in the parable is not the Church. It’s your own life.
DA–do you have a source for that second quote? I’ve been interested lately in the role of prophets. I think it’s pretty clear from reading the scriptures that a prophet may or may not be a church leader. But I think the issue has become clouded b/c the membership of the church has gradually embraced an assumption that “Prophet” is an office in the church. Which, as far as I can tell, has never been taught.
Does anyone know if there is doctrinal support for the idea of a Prophet of the Church? Or where this idea comes from? In the scriptures, the High Priest is usually a prophet, but I don’t think he is ever referred to as “The Prophet.”
Ray, I agree, of course anyone could be called as a prophet. What I meant was it’s confusing to label anyone receiving any kind of revelation from God, a prophet. Because that’s not how the scriptures (nor the world) uses the term. On a side note–I don’t think “prophet” is a position or office in the church.
SilentDawning wrote:Also, when in one breath we say the man presides, but then say marriage should be approached with the husband and wife as equal partners — bit of a conflict there.
Our culture teaches us that the person who gets to make the final decision is more important, valued, competent, powerful, etc. But what if that’s not true? What if it’s just a chore, like taking out the garbage?
I say this, b/c I hate making important decisions that affect others. The credit I get when I choose well never makes up for the grief of when I choose wrong. Plus the decision process itself causes anxiety. I don’t see how it’s worth it. As a kid, I never fought over “being in charge” of anything. I’ve learned to manage when I need to, but I still usually avoid leadership roles. Sometimes it’s wisdom and sometimes it’s a character flaw. But the point is, maybe “being in charge” isn’t as great as everyone thinks it is.
Presiding selflessly isn’t fun anyways.
To me “equal partners” means the needs/wants of both people are equally valid. The chore of presiding doesn’t elevate the person. Unlike the worldly tradition, he isn’t considered to be more important.
I think it’s interesting that God gave the boy Samuel revelation for Eli, who was the high priest of the Church. And Nephi did receive a revelation from God to break a commandment, by killing Laban. (Nephi was not the head of the Church at this time–it was personal revelation.)
Just two examples that don’t fit the current mold.
Also, I think it’s confusing to say “everyone is a prophet.” It might be true on a technicality, but it doesn’t seem to be what the scriptures mean when they use the word. I actually think the LDS definition of “prophet,” has changed recently (eg. PMG vs. older manuals), and is still changing.
flowerdrops wrote:…then maybe he wouldn’t have angered so many in the first place.
On the other hand, I don’t want Packer to hold back his true thoughts b/c some people might react with anger.
It seems to me that angry people get what they want too often, and for no good reason.
Of course it’s hard to say without knowing someone very well. But… I like to speculate.
Holland is something like an ENTJ, I think.
Scott may be an ESFJ.
http://typelogic.com/esfj.html “Their sense of right and wrong wrestles with an overwhelming rescuing, ‘mothering’ drive…,” (A very typical theme in his talks.) Also, “As caretakers, ESFJs sense danger all around–germs within, the elements without, unscrupulous malefactors, insidious character flaws.” (Maybe spiritual danger, for Scott.)
And I think Packer is ISTJ rather than ESTJ. Just b/c he doesn’t seem to be a people person, and he’s so intensely black and white. Well, this page seemed to describe him to a T, for me:
http://typelogic.com/istj.html INTP I always thought personality tests were just cheese–until I read the INTP profile somewhere. This was maybe a year ago. It described me so exactly that I couldn’t believe it. Been fascinated by it ever since. It gave me a measure of peace about being who I am. And it helped explain other people so well–especially certain J’s in my family by whom I was constantly baffled.
I know some people just shrug at it, but for me it changed everything.
Nearer My God to Thee Unbelievably, I sang it for years never thinking about the words. To me they are just powerful.
All of them. But especially:
“Out of my stony griefs, Bethel I’ll raise,
So by my woes to be, nearer my God to thee.”
I don’t believe Joseph had any wife besides Emma. There are two sides to every story, and most people are only familiar with one side when it comes to polygamy. Here is the other side:
http://restorationbookstore.org/jsfp-index.htm The authors claim that Brigham Young went on a mission to a polygamous community known as the Cochranites, shortly after joining the Church. And that Brigham and others, influenced by this, brought polygamy into the Church secretly, and ultimately blamed Joseph for it. Well, there is a lot more to the story, but I’ll leave it at that.
What people choose to wear has a lot do do with what they are trying to tell other people about themselves. People wear suits to project professionalism, wealth, or power. But what do any of these have to do with church? I think God has instructed us to avoid these things. In the scriptures, prophets don’t dress or act like professional businessmen. They don’t act like successful worldly men. Rather, they are looked down on by such. Normal dress for me is jeans, tennis shoes and a plain black t-shirt. I would describe it as conservative. But when I dress this way at church, people seem to get the wrong idea about me. Church leaders tend to be really concerned about me, and to think I’ve gone astray and am unhappy. A worse downside is that I attract entirely the wrong kind of girls. In short, when I dress how I want to at church, I am misrepresenting myself, and it makes things difficult for everyone. So for now I just go with the flow–white shirt and tie. It is what it is.
Euhemerus, It seems to me that if spiritual witnesses were as you wish, then faith would be out of the equation. And I don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle, but I do believe faith is a critical part of the plan for us. Just from what I’ve seen and experienced. It has occurred to me too that God purposefully set up our world and lives so that we are encouraged to turn to him for answers. But there’s a price you have to pay for the answers. Which eventually turns out to be not a price, but a burden off your back and a mote out of your eye.
