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One Sunday the YW president said very loudly something along the lines of “I’m tired of the bishop making decisions based on who he sleeps with.”
Roadrunner,
That is going to make me laugh every time I think about it.
And yes, Magic Man Sparkles too.
— Amateur Parent
Spirituality and religion. In LDS culture, we do not often differentiate between being spiritual and being religious. The first is a relationship with a higher power. The second is a relationship with an organized religion. They are very different things. As a people, it is easy to get caught up in religious matters and suddenly realize that we are spiritually starving — And just desperate for something of substance. We start looking for something that is filling as we are desperate for nourishment. At first and second and third impulse, I just wanted to walk away from the church and go find peace and joy and happiness in my life. To find nourishment.
And then I prayed. And I feel like I still need to be somehow associated with the LDS church. I’m trying to figure THAT out.
Is the church true? That is an excellent question that I cannot answer right now. But this site has helped me to sift through my thoughts and feelings.
I hope you find it equally helpful.
Welcome.
Quote:[/b]You know, I don’t know whether people would call me unlucky or fortunate, but I don’t actually care about what other people think of me. I care about what I think of myself, of course. I have set a very high bar for myself and I am determined not to let myself down. Unfortunately, I then think a lot of other members would see me as dangerous. I didn’t used to be. Before I was very much a people pleaser, so I guess then I was perfect for the church. Over the years I’ve just grown up and allowed myself to become the true me rather than what I think I should be.
My family would read the above and assume that I wrote it.
Years ago, our RS passed out a letter to all the sisters. It was from our area president, and it was on official church letterhead. He had given it to each stake president and told them to pass it on to each ward. It was to be given to all the sisters. The letter talked about the evils of birth control and how important it was for us to all have as many children as biologically possible. I brought it home and passed it on to my DH. He promptly mailed it to church headquarters in SLC. A few weeks later, it was announced in church that the previous letter had not been authorized and was completely incorrect. Our stake president then very diplomately approached us and wanted to know WHO we were connected with in SLC. The answer .. No one. But HQ did let the local administrators know who sent the letter to SLC.
What I learned from the experience was that area presidencies take fliers just like any one else. And they can be wrong.
Sometimes, I think God looks down at us, sighs, and thinks, “Is that all I get to work with?” Our leadership is all too human sometimes. Let’s hope they pray fervently and often for guidance.
Quote:The idea that I can (and should) have boundaries was new to me. I guess some people naturally have them; I didn’t.
Ann,
I had to learn boundaries. Growing up, I was told that if someone from church asked me to do something, I had an obligation to do it. I was to treat the request as if God himself had asked.
Some requests are inspired. Many are just desperately busy people hoping to delegate something
Healthy boundaries are just that — HEALTHY.
((( hugs ))?
There is absolutely a gender bias. So I learned that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission as an LDS woman. You want a bible study group??? Start an informal one. If it goes well enough, someone will want to formalize it, slap the ward name on it and claim credit for integrating it.
I am mechanically competent. And yet .. When someone’s car had a problem in the parking lot, and I told them what was wrong .. I wasn’t believed. A man showed up and told them the same thing and suddenly the answer was correct. He was thanked by the car owner. I got an odd stare.
I was looking at Senior Opportunities for service .. And thinking of the future. When we retire, we would love to do some volunteer work overseas, and I know that my speciality is always needed in third work countries. All the positions listed were specifically for a MAN .. And his wife would accompany to do paperwork.
Alas, I don’t think it is much better in society as a whole. This is not church-specific. It just annoys me more within the church. When I am dealing with an organization that is supposed represent God, I expect more acceptance of my god-given talents.
As I have gotten older, I have come to care less about it. Interestingly enough, as I have cared less about making waves, I have gotten more respect. There is still the random dude who feels his priesthood or manhood is threatened by the fact that I own power tools. But I have learned that those are his problems to claim and deal with — not mine.
So how come I’m still pissed off that the YM and YW budgets are not equal .. And the YM do high adventure fun activities .. While the girls get to write in another journal?
LDSThomas: Thank you for putting those feelings into words. As I read, I wanted to stand up and shout, “And ME too.”
I went to church to day. I really enjoyed the sacrament service. It was lovely and spiritual and uplifting. And yet .. AND YET .. I read through lesson manuals and wonder why we don’t delve deeper into history and discuss things a little more honestly. REALLY discuss. I look at budgeting and wonder why our young women never have equal budget with the young men. I look at so many issues that have nothing to do with doctrine and everything to do with culture and an infusion of new-Calvinism, and I feel dis-satisfied. I look at families of certain legacy last names and watch their attempts at empire building within the organization of the church, and I wonder why that is tolerated.
LDSThomas, you captured my thoughts so well. Thank you.
— Amateur Parent
Unconditional love and acceptance will win in the end. Isn’t it interesting that the church teaches about generations following the “Evil traditions of their Fathers” and talks so much about how important it is to find answers for ourselves through God .. Even if the answers are uncomfortable for the family dynamic.
YET .. we are also told not to sway from the teachings we were raised with.
Unfortunately, some of the things I was taught as a child are not truths. They are poor and incorrect traditions. I won’t call them evil, but they are not purely good either.
When we take someone off of a ventilator and wait to see if they can breath on their own — and they cannot — We do not consider that suicide. Giving morphine in a high enough dose to take care of the pain, while knowing that the patient will be too sedated to eat or drink .. that isn’t considered suicide either. Years ago, I had a patient who had moved away from family and not contacted them for over 16 years. They didn’t know where he was. He worked in a factory and kept to himself. One day, he collapsed at work and was brought in to the hospital and diagnosed with end-stage cancer. He had no friends. He had no family. His parents were contacted. They couldn’t get there fast enough .. They arrived an hour after his death. It was the worst death experience I was ever involved in .. because it was the loneliest death I have ever seen.
With that in my thoughts, I tell you that I am concerned for your friend because he is socially isolating himself. He has made the decision that as his body has begun failing, he is moving away from all sources of familial emotional support. When someone sees suicide as a better thing than letting others see them in a weakened state, I am concerned. We are social creatures.
While I see a time and place for suicide, it shouldn’t be considered out of pure vanity. It could hurt his family in ways beyond easy repair for them not to have the opportunity to be involved in his diminishing health.
When my oldest daughter was dying, I overwhelmingly felt my grandfather’s presence at one point. My mom called me in tears to tell me that she had felt her father’s presence and felt that he was waiting for my daughter. I had not told her of my experience .. Both we both felt him at the same time. She was in Spokane. I was in Dallas. I had an overwhelming feeling of WHEN she was going to die. The staff told me her condition was unchanged. I felt OVERWHELMINGLY that I needed to make phone calls. I told friends and family to make to two hour drive if they wanted to tell her goodbye. By the time people started arriving, her condition had changed, she was unstable and died within the hour. Without the premonition, I would have been alone with her, and her sister and dad would not have had a chance to share the death experience.
I have been told to turn my car around and go pick someone up. They turned out to be truly in need.
There were two of us setting up for a party at church late one night. Husbands had gone home with the kids. We both suddenly felt overwhelmingly that we needed to leave the building NOW. It was like the spirit was yelling at us to leave. We left and joked (nervously) about how GOD wanted us to go home .. We noticed a light on in the bishops office as we drove out of the parking lot. We found out the next day that the bishop had not left the light on .. But that someone had broken into the bishops office and then robbed the rest of the building. They took my silver salt and pepper shakers that I had left for the party. Because the light was on, we assume they were already in the building while we were there. I feel that I was protected from harm that night.
I have been prompted to go visit someone .. And found that they were in crisis.
I have had two dreams in my life that protected me from making very bad choices.
These things, in my opinion, have come from God.
On a slight twist away from the topic:
My sister was ex-communicated many years ago. She still feels God’s presence in her life. She feels the holy spirit. Knowing this, it has been interesting to hear people talk about an excommunicated person being cut off from God. I always ask them about the 99 and 1 sheep. To me, it seems that God would try even harder to reach the heart of someone who is in the midst of a spiritual struggle. I see excommunication as being a way to call people to repentance. A way to allow them to start over. A way to allow them to forgive themselves. I see it as a way to change their relationship with the church .. But it doesn’t separate them from God.
IMHO, the LDS church tradition used to be: To develop a personal relationship with God, and then get together on Sundays and teach each other and compare notes. We have moved away from that model into a more “lectured” model. A more formalized tradition of set roles and tighter doctrine. It might look more uniform from a distance .. As we all tend to dress well .. But it is stifling to the individual.
Dark Jedi: Wish I could morph into Papa Smurf for a few minutes and magically fix everything.
I cannot.
Breath. Take a step. Breath. Keep moving.
Know that we care.
Roy: There was a time in my life before tragedy that I thought tragedy only happened to other people. I assumed God would whisper in my ear and warn me before anything horrible could happen to me or my family.
Now , that attitude looks so shallow
But I also thought God was kinda like Santa Claus .. You ask for rational things and they showed up all wrapped in pretty bows.
Reality is harder.
So sorry to hear about the death of your baby. What a terrible loss.
We never sued .. It wasn’t going to give us anything that we valued. And it would’ve complicated grieving even more.
Hugs back to you.
Nibbler: “An earthquake and subsequent tsunami caused a nuclear disaster at the Fukushima plant in Japan, deadly radioactive material leaked out of the reactor. The various materials that leaked out of the reactor have different half-lives, most of the material has either a half-life of 8 days or 30 years but some of the material has a half-life of up to 24,000 years. Very toxic stuff that remains hazardous for a long, long time. This material leaked into the Pacific Ocean. The Pacific Ocean diluted the material making it far less concentrated and less hazardous as a result. It may have even diluted the hazardous materials to relatively normal background levels of radiation”That is beautifully stated. I really like that.
In the midst of trying times, I felt radioactive.. And just waiting for at least one half life to dispel some of the pain. Eventually, I felt like I had moved through my grief and came out the other side a different person, but an intact person.
Dealing with my youngest daughter’s social issues has brought up so many grief issues that I thought were resolved. I love the idea of there just being a different half life. That analogy works for me on a number of levels.
SilentDawning:
When I lost my first child, I threw myself into renovation. I painted everything. And tiled. Gutted two bathrooms. Hard physical labor was helpful. With the second loss, I added volunteer work. I felt like I was on the board of about every non-profit in town. President of the County Auxiliary. VP position for the state in another, Volunteer of the Year for a service organization.
Eventually, my friends started sending me books and calendars for “Women Who Do Too Much”.
Eventually, the sheer action of staying busy was not enough. I had to take time to just feel the raw emotion.
This time in my life seems to be round two of just feeling and processing emotion. I haven’t felt a need to volunteer right now. I mean, I do normal rational amounts of volunteer work now … But not hyper-drive mode.
Thank you for your suggestions. Maybe it is time to get outside of myself a little bit.
New Light: My standard excuse to my children when I mess up is that I am an Amateur Parent. I do not hold any advance degrees in parenting … That I do my best, but I am not a Professional Parent. I am just an Amateur, trying to do the best I can. It makes then laugh. They know I try really hard.
I too like the Holland vs Italy story. It is truly a classic. And explains so well the alternative journey we are on. As we have looked at alternative activities, we have steered away from anything that conflicted with YW .. I like the idea of giving ourselves permission to do what is right for DD .. Instead of focusing on attendance in a miserable social event.
Mom3:
I had to smile when I read your advice on writing. I have given that advice to many people over the years. And then I forgot to apply it to my own life. Thank you for the very well written reminder. I had not thought about throwing it away. I REALLY like that.
As a newlywed, my mother moved into a new ward. She sat down with the bishop and told him about all her wonderful ancestors. She listed their accomplishments and how long her side of the family had been in the church. Her bishop listened patiently and then asked, “And Sister ___, what have YOU done for The Lord.”
I was raised with that story. And taught that family linage didn’t mean squat. It is what we as individuals accomplish. And yet, I have friends whose entire identity is centered around their family linage. Which is more correct? I dunno. I see it as a cultural difference. Some families put more emphasis on it than others.
I grew up in California and Brazil. Then after college — to Texas.
The members in California had certain traditions — such as the yearly ward beach camp out. A very California tradition.
When we moved to Brazil, I found that most of the members came from a catholic background. They changed their religion, but many of their religious cultural traditions came with them. Candles!
The members in our small Texas town were often converts from a baptist or Pentecostal background. Some brought their suspicions about dancing with them. They just couldn’t wrap their heads around having a rock and roll dance at church. When in charge, they always seemed to have the dance changed into a Square Dance … Or become a sit down dinner instead.
Some areas of LDS culture has developed a focus on attainment of wealth. I have wondered if all those generations of suffering pioneers have created a culture that over-values financial success? There is nothing wrong with financial success .. I just don’t think God cares about how much we have. But certain regional areas of the church culture care too much.
