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The 20% who did all the work would also be the ones who actually show up to the stake meeting. The 80% who don’t care about HT will not be present to hear the lecture. Some things just don’t change.
Maybe the leadership can learn to show love and support to those who attend. If not, the 20% will soon become 5%.
Maybe the leadership needs to come help in the vineyard?
University: Maybe check out one of the Mormons in Transition groups in your area through Mormon Spectrum. Personally, I have found them very helpful. As a group, they understand my journey and cultural background. Our local group is a social bunch that hosts everything from family camping trips and mudder events to happy hours and beer fests. Truly a full spectrum of acceptance.
Best wishes on your journey.
— AP
I watched part of one video. It reminded me too much of the old codgers down at the local Hardee’s. They used to meet there every morning. Each was in their 80’s. Set in their ways. Not interested in learning anything new but very interested in expressing their opinions and sharing their “wisdom.” Each was capable of kindness as an individual, but in a group, they were not a good dynamic. A very racist, misogynistic, and mouthy group. This video reminded me of the Hardee’s crowd — with political and financial power added.
DarkJedi: You are correct. Ding! Ding! Ding! Flashing lights and horns.
Conversion comes from within. DH was merely a contact who gave unconditional acceptance. They talked and discussed for ten years with no end goal other than intellectual discussion. There was no attempt to persuade. DH cared deeply about his friend. DH didn’t attempt to influence what path his friend chose, DH was there to support his friend’s life journey. If the friend had chosen Dao Buddhism, I am sure the story would not have ended up in conference. But the reality is, all we can do is love and help people.
The longer I live, the more I see the reason for life and living and bodies as an opportunity to join together. Religious leaders might call it “Joining the body of Christ” What do we learn through having bodies? We learn physical sensations that can help us learn empathy. The struggles of life can either bond us together as people or serve to separate us. Maybe the goal is to bind us together as one people. Mental illness, addictions, and other forms of emotional and physical suffering are often alleviated by socialization. The studies about addictions being healed through socializatiin are stunning.
Maybe we are not on individual journeys. Maybe the goal is to see how many people you can bond with and take with you. That would certainly fit into some of JS’s sealing practices. Simple things get distorted and human weaknesses cause pure things to be desecrated, but the basics of friendship, kinship, and mutual support seem to be common goals in every life.
David met with Uchtdorf multiple times over this last year. He knew his story was going to be used with a focus on returning to the church. He was okay with that. He is content with where he landed. David is a very bright and capable and sarcastic litigator. He is a really funny guy. You would enjoy him. His feeling is that he tried literally everything that the world had to offer. He couldn’t find anything that brought him the peace that he found in the LDS church. I think he quit looking too hard at history and decided to just focus on loving people in the here and now. Doing so within the structure of the LDS church works for him. I don’t think you would call him “orthodox”.
DH knew him professionally. Both are litigators. They would bump into each other occasionally, started talking, then emailing and texting and calling back and forth. Just esoteric talks about religion and faith and the church. Never any judgement or pressure to return. Just discussions and genuine concern for him as an individual. It spanned 10 years.
David decided to be re-baptized. He called DH out of the blue and asked if he would do the deed. It was all very low-key .. except for brunch. The waffles were amazing.
Re-baptism worked for him. Every one is on a different journey. Sometimes, we see someone reach a destination that we don’t want and we cheapen it. That isn’t fair. It was a perfect destination for him. Just be happy for him .. and know that he would be happy to see you find a destination that spoke to your soul.
DFU talked about “David” and “Jacob” .. David being an attorney who joined the church, became very anti-LDS, resigned, discussed the church for 10 years with “Jacob” and eventually was re-baptized. My DH was “Jacob”.
“David” is a bright, capable, and sacastic guy who really appreciated non-judgmental discussions on ANY church topic.
I wish there was more open non-judgmentalal discussion of issues.
Quote:SilentDawning wrote:
“I don’t get the last part — “force our will on God”. I don’t thinK I can make God do anything he doesn’t want to do. Struck me as a very odd comment, unless Uchdorft is conflating God with the church…”
When my oldest daughter was so sick, the blessing she recieved didn’t feel uplifting in any way. I didn’t know if that meant death, or long Illness, or just what. It wasn’t good.
A sister of prominence in the ward told me two things that have stuck with me: First, that she thought WE lacked appropriate priesthood authority. Her husband was the Stake Patriarch and she thought his blessings held more power. She sent him to give our daughter a “proper” blessing. Second: She stated that as righteous members, we should do as the earliest members of the church did: Pray in a circle around her continually and “Command the Spirit” to heal her. That sister taught that as members we had the right to demand a healing.
Her comments stuck with me because I think she was wrong on all accounts.
Unfortunately, many members and CES lessons teach that if one lives according to the precepts of the church, God is bound to deliver on certain things. When people don’t get the “righteous desires of their hearts,” they feel tricked, robbed, and angry. It is part of the Prosperity Gospel teaching that I despise. We are not promised that obedience is going to make us healthy, wealthy, and/or wise.
Quote:Shawn wrote:
“Thanks for your thoughts, AP. But can I influence my family without manipulating them?”
That is an excellent question. After 31 years, I still cannot influence DH to fold towels in a way that I find acceptable. We just agree that he doesn’t fold towels .. Or fitted sheets.
Seriously, IMHO, all I think you can do is state what you would like to see happen. The other partner can consider that, and say yes or no. Both partners can do that with respect and love.
Seeing my DH leave the church would make my life so much easier in so many ways. There is only one problem. It would be like tearing his very heart and soul away from his body. I would respect him less if he did not stand his ground and set limits on what he is willing to do for me. I want a free-will partner .. Not just a reflection of myself.
DH has a friend who converted to the church and then left it. He decided to be rebaptized 18 months ago. DH did the dunking. We all went out for brunch afterwards. It was odd to be involved as he was celebrating re-baptism while I was questioning my faith in the church. Friend moved to SLC later due to employment. These past few months, Uchtdorf has been meeting with this friend. Uchtdorf told friend that he wanted to use part of friend’s story for this conference session.
I am curious to see if Uchtdorf uses friend’s story and in what capacity.
Roy, I just looked that song up. Simply amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. There is nothing perfect about DH and myself. People often make comments about our obviously close relationship. We are so close because of our brokenness. We claim our differences, our issues, and just focus on taking care of each other really well. That makes us perfect for each other.
Shawn: My marriage has never been better. I have left the LDS church. DH has stayed. We pay tithing on what he makes. I do not tithe to the LDS church. I do donate to causes that serve the poor and afflicted.
We both feel that God is for us — not against us — that takes care of any Celestial Family issues. We do not feel unequally yoked as we still pull together as a team. We don’t share the same religion. We love to discuss AND argue about politics. We like being different from each other. DH is wonderful, kind, accepting of my choices, and sexy as hell.
About seeng children get married .. Children who are old enough to get married will make their own decisions. Whether they elope, do a destination wedding in Tahiti, or choose a temple wedding ceremony, YOU DO NOT GET TO CHOOSE. If they drag home a 3 armed, 5 eyed alien as a fiancé and decide to get married in a Wiccan skyclad ceremony, you welcome your new relation with open arms and be supportive of their adult choices. You do not get to manipulate the hell out of their lives now in order to make sure you can attend a theoretical wedding 15 years in the future. The reality is that your children’s marriages and wedding ceremonies will have very little to do with you — other than asking you to help finance those choices.
The big question is: are you loving your family or are you manipulating them?
GBSmith: I think the topic is worthy of its own thread.
A very interesting question. Would be great to discuss.
Mom3: I had a mom who (literally) dragged me out of my tree fort and made me learn household skills. As an adult, it is nice to have the option to decide whether I want to do something or hire it out. I know how to do a lot .. But that doesn’t mean I choose to do those things all the time.
Gut the bathroom? I’m your girl. WeaselGirl sounds like she is into that too. I just like to know how to do stuff .. But none of it is “my identity”. You know how there is always that one sister in the ward who is “the quilter”. Another is “the crafter”. One is “the musical one”.
It makes my skin itch when someone wants to attach a label.
Team member of a Fortune 500 Corp??? — That’s an excellent label. You go girl!
