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Call me cynical, but members withholding tithing money would force change. I believe money talks! I have decided to not seek change in the Church. What I do desire is to find a way to feel comfortable with my membership in the Church.
What does not having to work hard on your marriage and reinforcing sexist stereotypes have to do with Jesus, The Book of Mormon, The Bible, the Sacrament, Joseph Smith etc… ? I wish we would talk about those things on Sunday instead of unnecessary polarizing rhetoric. However,I should be fair. The speaker was not speaking for The Church. She was speaking for herself and we all have the tendency to say stupid things.
Part of me wonders how individuals with marriage difficulties felt about her talk? I am not married, but I imagine many marriages require hard work. The talk might come off demeaning to couples who are working hard on their marriage.
“The missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints came to call. My mother had always taught me to invite anyone in saying they were representatives of God, so I did.” This comment jumped out at me from her mothers conversion story. For some reason I got a pretty big chuckle out of it.
wuwei wrote:One of the first testimonies, however, was a new sister who went on about how her siblings had left the church and how unhappy they were. She talk about how they “never say they’re unhappy but [she] can just see it in their eyes”. She went on about how sorry she felt for them etc, etc…. Ugh. I didn’t amen that one. I was pleasantly surprised that my wife made a comment to me after sacrament meeting about how judgmental she thought that was and she didn’t agree with that.
These are the type of testimonies/talks that I really dislike. Insulting/belittling/judgemental talks about non LDS individuals because they are not LDS always just bothers me.
I believe in tithing because when I joined the LDS church, I feel like paying 10 percent of my income to the Church in order to support it was a commitment I made that I keep. However, I do not believe that the money is going to the lord. I believe that my money is going to Church Headquaters in Salt Lake City. Personally, I don’t believe that God’s address is in Utah. Quote:“Spending energy and time trying to be someone you are not is wasting the person you are.”
What I find interesting about this quote is that sometimes as a Mormon I feel pressured to not be myself.
I won’t lie, during the Football season I miss church 35 percent of the time. The only side effect of missing church is that I watch more Football. sirbikesalot wrote:-One day my wife and I felt impressed that a neighboring ward member needed the extra $1500 we had tucked away more than we did so we got a friend of hers that the neighbor didn’t know to drop it by. Next week in bishopric meeting the bishop bemoans that he was trying to teach the priesthood holder in this house a “lesson” by withholding support and trying to force him to find a job before his house was foreclosed (back in the day when people still theoretically tried to do everything possible to avoid a foreclosure) but someone apparently didn’t trust his leadership and bailed the family out. – this one bugged me for a long time. I think though, in retrospect, the Bishop was approaching this as a lazy priesthood holder problem when I believe it is actually a Mental Health problem. Again though, two different spiritual messages, was the Bishop right or was I right? This question has dogged me for a decade now and I think I am finally finding peace in acknowledging that priesthood leaders make mistakes and that perhaps Authority does not equal perfection or even knowledge, it only means freedom to act for another but does not necessarily mean the other completely agrees. I fully believe they would have lost their house if not for that intervention.
I give you credit for acting very Christlike! When money is involved, it is easy to forget about doing nice things. It sounds like your Bishop was jealous that someone else gets to receive credit for helping a ward member.
wuwei wrote:I really have no desire to share all of my problems with her. I don’t think either of us would be helped by me going over individual issues. I don’t even hope to win her over to my view on church and religion in general.
Words of wisdom if you ask me. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree with family and friends.
wuwei wrote:From my experience it’s about par for family-friendliness. There are certainly others that are more open and make it more fun for kids and easier on parents. There are some that wouldn’t expect you to worry so much about your children’s eternal souls.Then there are others that would require you to cut off communication with your children because they were excommunicated for celebrating their birthday. I don’t see the LDS church at either extreme. Even with homosexuality or divorce or other issues. There are much more lenient churches and much harsher. I think the church has also come a long way in just the last 5-10 years on those issues. And I think a lot of the issues we have with parts of the church are reflective of conservative protestant christianity more than just the LDS church. The only difference is they don’t usually claim to be led directly by God through a living prophet…
Wuwei, this part of your post actually made me feel sad. I feel like you are comparing the LDS Church to what appears to be the worst practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses and others to make our church look mainstream or harmless. In my opinion comparing our religion to the worst practices of other Churches/religions does not speak well about our religion. Just becauce other faiths do bad things, that does not make the bad things our religion does okay.
In addition, I disagree that family units are not destroyed by our faith. I personally have know many Mormons who have cut off communications with their kids because of their childrens sexual orientation and over their church membership. Sorry, that is just my experience. As someone who did not grow up in the church, I would never sacrafice the quality of my realtionships with a friend or family member over church membership.
Sorry you are depressed Jamison. Depression stinks! Personally, I think it is a good thing that you see a therapist outside of the church. Particularly if it is less expensiive. As far as outsourcing of social services, I don’t expect anything from the church so I don’t really care. Sorry, not trying to sound insensitive. If I am having a problem with employment or mental health, I would rather look outside of the church for help.
Mom3, I think you can communicate with you ward leadership that you don’t like their methods. I know it sounds easier than it really is, but simply don’t let yourself become a ward project. It takes two people tango and you don’t have to dance. Be polite, but firm. I think the Church is family friendly if everyone in the family is LDS. Otherwise, it could really break up a family. Just my opinion. rebeccad wrote:The problem is that what people are told is up to the whim of the temple worker who talks to them that day.
I would really like if what was written stayed the same, and nothing was added to it.
What we really need is consistency!
I think the problem is that we are willing to accept and open ourselves up to what the temple worker is telling us in first place. I think if we make decesions on how to wear our underwear based on what some random stranger tells us, we are setting ourselves up for some difficulty. I think what we really need is not to ask the temple worker in the first place.
I think Roy’s three points were spot on! The reason I think Roy’s three points are important is it helps to distinguish how the LDS religion is different than others. In my Protestant upbringing, if a family member switches churches no one cares and/or makes moral assumptions about your character. However, in LDS culture leaving the church can put a serious dent in Christmas/Thanksgiving Dinner and other family events.
It seems silly to be willing to sacrifice the quality of your family life in the one existence you know you will have in order to hopefully be with your family in the next life.
Wuwei, glad to hear you had a good day! In addition, sorry to keep throwing out suggestions! This will be my last one, have you considered maybe not sharing your new views on the Church with your wife? It stinks not being able to be fully open with your spouse, but some things like religion and politics just don’t lead to good conversations.
