[Ann]

I had a couple of quick thoughts.

Stayforthedip wrote:

My husband has been very supportive of me as I have moved through my stages of belief and doubt. He has not judged my choice to stop attending the temple, not renew my recommend, or stop wearing garments every day. Our marriage has stayed about the same (in a good way) for the past few years.

Sometime when things are calm make sure he knows you notice and appreciate this. I’m not suggesting being fake and manipulating him with your “praise” of his behavior. But since you do count yourself lucky to have his tolerance on all this, it might be good to make it clear.

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The problem isn’t just figuring out how we parent where we don’t agree.

If this really isn’t the problem then my advice is to not make it the problem. Try to do things as a family that unite you. I try not speak in secret with my kids, but say what I have to say out in the open. It increases the trust.

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This episode made me feel really disconnected from him, and also made me feel nervous about bringing up other hard discussion points.

It’s the distance and wariness of each other. It’s sad and difficult. I try to remember that he’s feeling it, too.

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So, I guess, any advice on how to feel close to a spouse when your beliefs are moving farther apart?

I had to deliberately bring things into our relationship, or bring things back from earlier times in our marriage, that had good associations and potential to bring us together. I’m not in autopilot anymore, agreeing with him about most things said and done at church, or happy to socialize 99% of the time with LDS friends. Find things to fill the voids.

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How do parent with different and even opposing beliefs on some issues?

One thing is to not borrow trouble. I don’t know how old your kids are. But Elder Renland just talked about bigotry (for possibly the first time?) in General Conference. I think we are finally waking up as a people; we can’t joke about this anymore. How does your husband talk about LGBT people? If his attitude right now is to steer clear of the subject and follow the prophet – and he isn’t inculcating your kids with hatred and intolerance for gay people – that might be the best you can hope for right now.

[Ann]

I had to simultaneously narrow in and widen out.

Narrowing in: I love my husband and will not rashly do anything to hurt him or our marriage. From that fact flows a lot. I also got to the point – but this took years – of firmly committing to speak my mind, when appropriate openings occur, at church. Last night I had the sisters over for dinner, and somewhere in the conversation ended up saying that I didn’t think single people will have a different reward than married people. Just a small, authentic moment that I wouldn’t have allowed myself before.

Widening out: I realized that there is nothing this church, or I as a member of it, is experiencing that hasn’t been seen before. i started reading more and seeing myself as a member of the human race instead of a member of a particular church.

You asked if it’s been discussed before, and I would say it’s this site’s reason for being. I hope you find a lot of wisdom poking around in the threads. Glad you’re here.

[Ann]

LookingHard wrote:

I think he was thinking, “they really admire me for keeping to my word of not going over!”

😆 And it’s a testament to how much we all hate drawn-out meetings that I’m sure many did!

I always hesitate to use “misogyny” unless it encompasses things like disregard and disinterest. Even obliviousness. Like my own! Since for most of my life I didn’t ask: What is my church teaching me about me?

I think the Bednar/0kazaki divide highlights the difference between seeing families and individuals as unique and worthy of happiness in this life, not as products to be delivered to heaven in a certain box.

MGFs is not heart-warming or inspiring. Neither is the R.S. goal for the year: something about “preparing women” for the blessings of eternal life. These future-oriented, supposedly “big picture” or long-range goals – they just don’t speak to me. I’ve always loved the quote,

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Real generosity towards the future lies in giving all to the present.

That’s why MGFs leave me cold. They don’t feel like love and concern for the present and the people in it. They’re more about the health of the institution.

[Ann]

nibbler wrote:

LookingHard wrote:

Heber13 wrote:

Why can’t we have women like Chieko in charge?

Answer: Patriarchy

Is this a bad time to bring up that only one woman spoke during the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th general conference sessions combined? :silent:

4 out of 36 total talks if you count all the sessions.

Maybe there’s not a good time to bring it up, I think. But there’s a good person to bring it up: any man.

Women can and do bring stuff like this up, but lately I ask myself, “So…how’s that workin’ for you?”

So thanks for doing it. Re. conference, it might just be a glitch, but I did notice.

Quickly editing to add: This comment is about my frustration with the whole church, not this site. And I second DJ’s dread above. Maybe I am off-base, but the bulk of his talks and some interviews I’ve heard with him and his wife don’t bode well, I think.

[Ann]

Roy wrote:

It was frightening at first to be in a position were church records and temple ordinances meant nothing….

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For me lately I have begun to think of the temple sealing like training wheels. They can be super helpful to provide for stability and balance as you try to find your footing. However, there also comes a point where they can be unnecessary and even a hindrance to a more mature and fully developed familial love.

I feels to me like we need to change (ala Bushman) the “dominant narrative” of the temple, or too many who find themselves considering the possibility that it’s all meaningless won’t have any alternative ways to look at it.

[Ann]

SilentDawning wrote:

I have a question — do you believe the only way to have eternal family is through ordinances and “enduring to the end”?

No. I think my nuclear family is just as together on the other side as my neighbor’s. They don’t need another sealing; their love is it. It endured.

I assume that whatever constitutes “me” at that point will be further down the road of perfect love. And as an example, my enormous love and respect for my mother will not be diminished if I learn to Iove her abusive, alcoholic father. To me, that’s sealing – creating a place holder or space in our hearts for future love.

It seems to me that the forever family/sealing idea – which I assume was originally mostly to comfort surviving family members – has gotten horribly knotted up on itself, and the church will need to reframe it pretty soon.

[Ann]

LookingHard wrote:

If you like podcasts at all, you might want to look at https://mormonjourneys.org/” class=”bbcode_url”>https://mormonjourneys.org/

Thanks. I will check it out. (I need to learn the tricks I’ve heard about! Setting the playing speed faster, etc.)

[Ann]

nibbler wrote:

When I was orthodox I loved Holland. In contrast to others, he gave messages that made you feel like a lowly person such as yourself could be saved. Salvation was still possible!Now I’m unsure how I feel. I still like him though, he makes a lot more sense to me when I look at his talks as him addressing issues he himself struggles with.

I think there’s a very fine line between “feeling like a lowly person such as yourself…” and just feeling like a lowly person. I feel, especially in the last ten years, or so, like his talks do the latter for me. I used to just enjoy the language and literary and doctrinal beauty of his talks, but there’s a extra heavy mood now, and a broken feeling that they engender in me. I say that, even as I’m grateful for him speaking to mental health issues, etc.

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He’s meeting a need for many members out there and I love him for it.

I agree. My daughter was really inspired yesterday by his comments about poverty.

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Perhaps because I’ve completely run out of steam. I’ve had to dial back church commitments as I’ve dealt with long term, drain life emergencies and it has taken its toll. I’m the giving tree and the little boy is rounding the corner with a stump grinder.

I might as well go all the way and admit that I’ve never found that book anything but horrifying. Sending you whatever strength you can get from others.

[Ann]

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How do you tell your parents “I love you. I love the Church. I am so grateful you brought me up LDS. I no longer believe it.

dande48 – Sorry for the stress this is causing you. You’re probably much older and at a different stage of life than the child I’m talking about, but I’d still like to know: Do you plan to just step away from this and all churches, or do you see yourself actively looking for another? And, in general, what would you want to hear from your parents – a basic, I love you and let me know if I can help? Or prefer more involved questions?

With my own mom, fwiw, even though I’m completely active, I am disillusioned and sometimes openly critical of it with her. But I make sure to say that I think I completely understand why she joined the church and that, in many ways, it was a godsend for our family. I appreciate everything she did for me. I also just try to comfort her. Tell her that I believe we’re all going to be together hereafter, regardless of what the church teaches. I let her see my confidence in that. (And I skip entirely the other fact: that about one day in ten I doubt there’s an afterlife at all. Not helpful, to her or me.)

[Ann]

I was putting BYU license plates, T-shirts, credit union/mortgage companies, Provo tourism, etc., in the advertising category. Just a blanket wish for no selling of stuff at conference.

[Ann]

I wish the church would come up with the money – after all the teaching about the sabbath, sacrificing worldly things for it, etc., – to fund a commercial-free conference broadcast.

Since I’m editing, forgot to say:

I liked Elder Cook’s reminder that spiritual development requires time and effort.

[Ann]

Love postlude “A Mighty Fortress….”

[Ann]

ydeve wrote:

How many of today’s talks haven’t started with an appeal to fear?

But I like that Grow’s at least said the goal is to know God, not to “have a testimony” of the Church.

[Ann]

I didn’t serve, but am grateful that our daughter’s MP was such a loving person.

[Ann]

DarkJedi wrote:

Uchtdorf is knocking another home run. So many in the church operate on fear and monger fear.

And I don’t think most leaders understand that – and maybe I’m generalizing from my own experience – the first thing to go in a faith crisis is fear. I’m done with it. (Except for the “fear”/awe of God.) So the more they want to transact with the currency of fear, the less I connect.

[Author]

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