[asha]

Old-Timer wrote:

I really do LOVE the actual output.

This sounds so healthy and positive… I hope I can get there one day.

[asha]

Gabe P wrote:

I think a lot of things in the LDS scriptures are good ideas, but that’s about it. I don’t rely on them as infallible guides or as a source that would trump a scholarly book. As far as staying in the Church with that belief, I think the essay on the front page says it better than I can. I would only add that I think it’s totally legitimate to leave over that concern and I don’t necessarily think staying is always the best option. But it sometimes is, and if we’ve invested heavily, it’s worth thinking over.

I like this, and the essay that you refer to was enormously helpful to me when I was at a real low point a couple of weeks ago. I guess lately I have been asking myself the question, “Is it really all worth it?”. My Sundays have been a nightmare for years now, as I usually have to go with my five kids alone and wrestle with them alone throughout SM (the three younger ones are a real handfull). My husband is usually on call for the hospital he works at twice a month, so his only free Sundays are taken up by his calling on the Stake High Council – in other words he is rarely (never!) at church with me. I teach every Sunday, and am responsible for at least two Wednesday night activities a month, and visit teach four sisters every month. Believe it or not, I was even busier when I was in Primary. It is not really an option to not have a calling here, as many people have two or three. Due to my husband’s career, we have very little time together as a family because the church takes up all of his free time, even on Saturdays and Sundays. Now I am facing the prospect of my eldest daughter starting early-morning seminary in September which means I will have to drive her to the stake centre every morning Monday to Friday for 6:30am. 👿

I can certainly now see the importance of having a testimony from a purely practical standpoint: why go to to so much time and effort, often at the expense of your family’s time, unless you know that it is all “true”?

Maybe I am just tired.

Thank you for your responses regarding the BoA. I agree with much of what you all said. I just think I have gotten to the point where I am unable to see/appreciate the inherent value in something when the historical claims surrounding it lack credibility. That probably has more to do with my own anger than anything else. I don’t seem to have that problem with Jesus… meaning I am able to appreciate his teachings for the wisdom in them, regardless of whether or not I believe he is the son of God. Maybe that means there is hope that I can get to that same place regarding the LDS church. It is just so hard when the church requires so much sacrifice from me.

[asha]

Orson wrote:

Please feel free to ask any question, let’s talk about it.

Sorry, I just realized that I neglected to ask any hard questions in my overly long post. Here it goes:

One the final things (amongst many others) that really pushed me over the edge was the Book of Abraham. Given my feelings about the temple, I understand why this controversy would be especially hard for me personally to stomach. I would be interested in hearing peoples’ thoughts and feelings here about the Book of Abraham.

[asha]

It seems like I waver back and forth on a daily basis as to whether or not I can make it work (i.e. to keep going to church despite the fact that I really don’t believe any of it). Some days I feel as though I can do it, and other days it seems like too much of a double-life.

I have a friend who was raised in the church who feels similar to me, but she is able to make it work for her family… I think the big difference is that she believes in Jesus Christ and that is what she focuses on. She is able to make everything about the saviour and disregard everything else about the church that bothers her. How I envy her!

In my case, I was raised an atheist/agnostic, and when I became disillusioned with the church a few years ago, I fell quickly back into that way of thinking (not sure if I ever really left that way of thinking, though I certainly tried). It is interesting to me that being a member of the church for over 16 years, I never developed any sort of deeper understanding of or real relationship with Jesus Christ. The elusive “testimony” that I struggled in vain to acquire for at least 10 of those years, was more focused on feeling/believing that the LDS church itself was “true” (I am cringing as I type that last word). When I finally gave up desperately trying to find that testimony (I figured that somewhere in that 10 years of devoted prayer and scripture study I would have felt SOMETHING if I was meant too, and I never did… the heavens were frighteningly silent to me), it was as though there was nothing left. I have read of many other people who become disillusioned with the LDS church, but still have a deeply rooted faith in Jesus Christ, so they are able to either stay active, or find a different church that better meets their needs. I, on the other hand, feel as though there is nothing left for me. I go to church for the sake of my TBM husband and my kids, but I feel so empty and lonely there.

On top of it all, even before I became disillusioned with the church, I had serious baggage where the temple is concerned. Since my parents are not members, and I am their only daughter, you can imagine how difficult that time was for me. It is still an open wound as I think of it now. Due to the enormous heartache my temple wedding created for my parents and myself, I have never been able to think of the temple without getting a pit in my stomach. I can remember one heated phone conversation between myself and my wonderful mother back during my engagement when she told me through her enormous hurt that “Your family will never forgive you for this.” In reality, all these years later I believe that my parents have forgiven me, and we have a great relationship, although my wedding is something that we never talk about. I know that I, however, will never be able to forgive myself for making a decision that prevented my loving parents from being able to witness the wedding of their only daughter. Becoming completely disillusioned with the church has made that guilt so much stronger. I am only 2 weeks away from my 15th wedding anniversary, and I still think of all the hurt on almost a daily basis.

As far as remaining active in the church goes, I have felt for a long time like I could just plug along under the radar, go through the motions and try to not think about anything too much. Over the past year though, it has become increasingly harder and harder. I am not sure why. I think maybe I am finding it too difficult to keep going without being open about how I really feel to my DH. Also, perhaps my kids getting older and starting to ask me difficult questions has woken up me out of my haze. Either way, I know I can’t go on like this indefinitely. I have promised myself I will give at least 6 months to my new calling in yw. If I still haven’t found a semblance of peace by then, I don’t see how I will be able to keep it up.

My apologies for the length of this post. I will try to not babble on for so long in the future. 😳

[asha]

I have not set foot inside a temple for over 8 years now, and have not held a temple rec for about 3 (because of beliefs), but I continue to wear my garments. This is completely personal, but to me wearing them symbolizes my continued commitment to keep attending the church, and if I ever leave, they will be the first thing to go. I also feel that I have to set the example to my kids. If I want to keep going to church for their sake, then part of keeping up appearances is the wearing of garments.

I also agree with Tom, that it is possible to separate the history of garment-wearing (which is, I agree, troubling) from what they symbolize to most members today and what more importantly they mean to you on a personal level.

[asha]

Tom Haws wrote:

Is it wrong to be sincerely and earnestly and gently subversive? Is it wrong to ask questions when the eyes are rolling?

I think for me it depends on the audience, but maybe that is because I am a bit of a coward. For example, this past Sunday evening I attended a youth fireside where the leader talked about the evils of same-sex marriage and about how the youth need to be engaged in the battle against it on an ongoing basis. I was gritting my teeth, and at one point had my head in my hands wondering if I could just get up and walk out, but decided I couldn’t just leave because two of my kids were in the room somewhere too.

I really felt that I couldn’t speak up about how I felt because I worried that I was the only one in the room who felt as I did, i.e. that the church should stay out of politics, not dictate to non-members how to live their lives, respect the law of the land since gay marriage is legal where we live, the inherent irony in members of the church persecuting people for what they view as sexual deviance considering the church’s polygamous history (especially considering polygamy was illegal) etc, etc.. Afterwards I did start to regret not speaking up, but I was so sure it would have turned into such a confrontation.

As it turns out, I did have one ally in the room: my daughter (13 years old). We talked about it later and she told me that next time she feels that uncomfortable in a fireside she is getting up and walking out. I was impressed with her resistance to being so easily influenced by something that felt so wrong to her… so maybe some good did come of the evening after all.

I have felt the same way in Sunday school and Relief Society… where I often feel as though I am the only person in the room who feels the way that I do. Sometimes I hear people say things about the church that I know for a fact are historically inaccurate, but I can’t see how putting in my two cents would not be received very negatively by everyone else in the room. I have gotten good at suppressing what I am thinking. I sit there with a serene look on my face while I am silently screaming inside.

Yes, I accepted the calling in yw because I love those girls and I want to serve them and be there for them. However, I also suspect I will have less of a filter when teaching them than I would elsewhere in the church. I want them to each find their own spiritual path and learn to think for themselves, instead of just being told what to think by their leaders. I am still going to have to bite my tongue a lot, but I know they already appreciate my honesty, and a few of them have told me that they love how they feel that they can say anything to me. (I guess when I look at it that way maybe I am not doing such a good job of preparing them for sunday school and RS!)

I would be very interested in hearing about situations where you have been successful at being “gently subversive”.

[asha]

Tom said “Here we are trying to say, “I am at very least considering the idea of staying because of some benefit of the relationship between me and the church.” It’s a curious proposition, but we are at least entertaining it.”

I don’t know if I will ever get to that point. Right now I am trying to find a way to stay at least until my kids have grown and left home, then I will re-evaluate. I have sometimes wondered if I would choose to stay if something happened to my husband (i.e. death, leaves church himself, etc) and I don’t really think I would. I think my kids are definitely benefitting in many ways from our family’s membership in the church, but I don’t know if the pros always outweigh the cons (no pun intended!). Maybe I am just trying to find a way to keep the peace?

“Gabe said “When you say you were able to do “damage control” with the TBM husband, what exactly do you mean (if you don’t mind my asking)?”

My husband is one of those very non-confrontational types. In 15 years of marriage I don’t think he has ever raised his voice to me. When he is angry or upset he prefers to quietly ignore whatever is making him angry. When I tearfully confided in him that I had secretly not believed the church to be true for many years, he grew very quiet and didn’t talk to me for a day and a half except in front of the kids. Finally I apologized to him for laying so much on him at once. I told him I felt that I had found a way to feel better about staying in the church despite my doubts and that he did not need to concern himself further with the thought that I might be going “apostate”. He quickly told me that I had no reason to apologize and that he was troubled that I had not opened up to him sooner. That, however, was the end of the conversation and it has not been brought up again. I can tell that he would prefer to not talk about it since our differing views of church history are very troubling to him. He will not listen to or read anything that is not directly sanctioned by the church (completely the opposite of me!) We are best friends in every other way, so it is sad that I cannot talk openly with him about the church. It is clear to me that he prefers to not know what he doesn’t know. He is happier with his head in the sand, and in many ways I envy him for that.

I think I am cynical too. I was interested in the opinions of others on the topic of confiding in my non-member parents, but I don’t think I would ever be able to do it. I honestly fear the backlash it could create, and I also agree with Gabe that there is a huge possibility that they might start being less respectful with regards to the church which could ultimately be hard on my husband and children.

Thanks for your replies!

[Author]

Posts