[azguy]

nibbler wrote:

It sounds like a positive move.

azguy wrote:

Sunday School was absolutely atrocious. The gospel doctrine teacher was asking nothing by leading questions that strongly insinuated he was looking for a certain answer, and I didn’t really agree with most of what he was saying.

I’ve had many teachers like that. I may or may not have taught a lesson like that myself. :shifty:

Ya, I shouldn’t be too hard on him. I’ve done that too, and I’m sure I’ll do it again.

[azguy]

Hi everyone, I have an update on the move. We got moved in about four weeks ago. The first Sunday after moving, we went to our old ward as my daughter and I were performing a musical number. My wife and I agreed we would take a few weeks off from church. This was really getting to to me, as I would prefer we just attended. Yesterday evening, she could tell it was bothering me, and she offered that we should go to church today. So we did.

It turns out one of the clerks in our old ward ported our records over to the new ward already, so the Bishop read our records in at the new ward today. On top of that, I had four different people come up to me and let me know they know my dad. On top of that, our new stake president used to live right down the street from me when I was growing up and his wife used to be my piano teacher. Everyone was very friendly and I really felt right at home. It was actually really comforting.

I love this part of the church. I have an instant social connection with everyone. I can talk and make friends very quickly. I just have a super hard time with the hard core TBM black and white belief. Sunday School was absolutely atrocious. The gospel doctrine teacher was asking nothing by leading questions that strongly insinuated he was looking for a certain answer, and I didn’t really agree with most of what he was saying. EQ was half way decent. It started off pretty bad, but it got better.

This would be so much easier if there wasn’t such a strong expectation to be uber-orthodox.

[azguy]

Ann wrote:

azguy, so sorry you have to move, but hope there’s an up side to it.

There are lots of upsides to this move. The biggest thing is that my wife and I need to symbolically leave a lot of baggage behind in the house we are selling. We’ve gone through some very difficult trials, and I think physically leaving the house we’re in now will be really good for us.

[azguy]

Silent Dawning,

That is some good advice. I actually just go my TR renewed. My wife hasn’t had a TR in years. I think part of my challenge will just be laying low. I tend to be an outgoing and ambitious person. It’s very difficult for me to turn that off when in a new setting. Every time I’ve moved into a new ward (and we’ve done a lot of moving unfortunately), I’m the guy that goes around and introduces myself with a big dumb smile on my face and says that “I’m so excited to be here”. I give off a vibe of, ‘please, give me something to do’. And I’ve had all the callings that would lead someone to believe I need to be in a leadership calling.

I do like your idea about trying to get to know someone in a non-church setting. In our current ward, my wife and I went out of our way to set up non-church-related date night activities with large groups of people from our ward. We had lots of fun doing these. It helped us get to know people, and their personalities, and it helped them feel comfortable around us.

[azguy]

nibbler wrote:

It depends on where you are at in your journey but generally I’d take Minyan Man’s approach.

Another alternative, as I understand it MormonStories has a list of support communities. If there’s a support community in the are where you’re moving you might find people in that community that know the lay of the land.

This is great advice nibbler. The funny part, is that we are only moving about 3 miles as the crow flies, but it is a new ward, a new stake, a new town and a new school district. Our two daughters have convinced us (for the time being) to keep them at the school they are at, but our boys are going to a new school.

This is great advice from all of you. I think I need to keep my cards close to my chest at the beginning. I’ve been in my current ward for five years, and it took my almost four to feel comfortable opening up to everyone completely.

[azguy]

We did a 30 day church break about two months ago. Maybe we should take another little mini break when we move into the new house. We are making an effort to go to church these last few weeks in our current ward so we get a chance to say goodbye to people (plus it’s mother day, and then my daughter and I are doing a musical number), but I’m not in a terrible hurry to get into the new ward because we don’t really know anyone there. Our two daughters are still going to attend girl’s camp in the ward we are in right now. They are going to stay in the same school they are in, so they’ll still remain friends with all of the kids they currently go to church with.

[azguy]

SilentDawning wrote:

Saw this quote:

Quote:

“Mormonism must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a Prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph was a deceiver, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false…” – Doctrine of Salvation, 1:188-89 – President Joseph Fielding Smith

I don’t like this type of thinking…because there are things JS did that are buried in history and COULD be construed as fraudulent, but we can’t be sure. Further, everyone makes mistakes, and what is fraudulent and what is not is a matter of judgment. Also, this statement leaves no room for middle ground. The other thing that bothers me is that although this prophet seems to be embracing refutation and intellectual discussion (not a bad thing), our church tends to favor truth discovery on the basis of subjective feelings rather than refutation.

SilentDawning, I am totally with you on this topic. I believe this is why so many people I know and love are having such a hard time with church history right now. The standard LDS testimony is completely based on a white washed image of Joseph Smith. When one learns some of the less savory historical facts of Joseph Smith, this testimony can easily crumble.

[azguy]

I would absolutely support medical marijuana and it is my personal belief that it would be completely acceptable within the word of wisdom.

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-southeast-valley/mesa/mesa-boys-parents-sue-state-to-allow-him-to-be-medicated-with-cannabis-oil-drops

The boy in this article is treated with oil extracted from marijuana plants. It has reduced the numbers of seizures he has dramatically. I challenge anyone to tell me why this boy should not be allowed to have medicine that helps him.

As for alcohol, if there was a legitimate medical reason to use it, I can’t see why there would be any problem with ingesting it. Then again, I’ve never heard of a legitimate medical reason for consuming alcohol.

[azguy]

DarkJedi wrote:

So to carefully carry this a bit farther: If Satan is lying throughout the presentation, what are we to take from when he confirms to Eve that there is no other way? Was there another way or was he telling the truth then? If he was telling the truth then, how are we to know when he’s lying and when he’s telling the truth?

Personal context: I don’t believe in an actual Satan/Lucifer (and I actually believe Lucifer in the OT is referring to someone else), but I do believe in evil. I also believe evil doers can lie or mix truth with lies.

I think the most dangerous kinds of lies are the ones that contain a fair amount of truth. If you follow the normal LDS doctrine for the plan, the fall was necessary, and Satan was being truthful in that by partaking of the fruit, her eyes would be opened. But at the same time, he was deceiving and manipulating her in a way that would benefit him.

[azguy]

nibbler wrote:

I find it interesting that “he’s lying” was the first conclusion a group of peers came to. Not the “yeah, just make sure you don’t sin” answer I’d anticipate but a “he’s wrong.” They stuck with that interpretation even after they got a little push back.

Thanks for sharing.

The missionary I was talking to was a convert. He was about 18 years old when he was baptized, then left on his mission one year later. It was pretty tough on him. One of his parents (I think it was his dad) was not a member. He had been “on fire” when he started his mission, but it really wore down on him. He had a lot of unique perspectives and was not as prone to following the standard Mormon social conventions on things.

[azguy]

Heber13 wrote:

There is power in us believing we are divine in nature.

I very much consider myself a non-literal symbolic believer, and I love this thought. Your attitude in life makes such a difference in how you carry yourself. The ability to believe in yourself, and that you can become something greater is a very powerful idea.

[azguy]

LookingHard wrote:

I hear lots of “EVERYTHING about the gospel is AWESOME!” At church all the time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is yet another reason that the movie is so applicable. :clap:

Some of the deepest and thought provoking movies I enjoy are animated children’s movies.

[azguy]

FaithfulSkeptic wrote:

Thanks for sharing! I haven’t had a desire to see the Lego movie, but now maybe I will!

As long as you can handle, “Everything is Awesome”, you’ll be fine.

[azguy]

I like the ‘book’ suggestion. Having a good book to read, that doesn’t have anything to do with church, or philosophy would be great… something that is just a cool story that you can get wrapped up into. I know it wouldn’t suit everyone, but I have read all of the “A Song of Ice and Fire” books (a.k.a. The Game of Thrones series). There is 5,000+ pages that will keep you busy for a while.

Also, a good hobby goes a long way. Find something you really enjoy doing and let that be your time to escape.

[azguy]

Roy wrote:

You mention that you have been “white-knuckling” it for the last 6-8 months. What does that mean? Are you comfortable with your wife being inactive forever or were you hoping that it was just a phase?

Early on when my wife was going through her faith transition (I don’t like Faith Crisis), she told me she thought this was just a phase she was going through. Later on when she told me she needed to “take a break” from church attendance, she made it sound like it was a temporary kind of thing. In my mind, because she was letting me know these were temporary decisions, I have been holding to things just “returning back to normal”. That is the ‘white-knuckling’ I am talking about.

I think I need to just let go of the “normal” I am looking for and embrace ‘us’ as a couple the way we are. That will allow me to loosen my death grip on ‘normal’.

I was definitely hoping this was just a phase she was going through. I think this was also why she floated the idea of resigning. At the time she said that, she was thinking it would help me to recognize that this was no longer a phase, but a decision she had made.

Roy wrote:

Because you have been able to live and function as an active non-literal believing Mormon, is it possible that you expected that your spouse might be able to do the same?

Absolutely yes. A thousand times yes.

[Author]

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