[Beefster]

mom3 wrote:

I have one question though, how do having all these resignations help Protect the Children?

TBH, I don’t think it really does, but that’s not really the point. The movement is pretty much sunk now that its leader has been ex’d. It no longer has any credibility in the eyes of the average TBM. In resigning, people are sending the strong signal that what happened was not okay, that they stand with Sam, and that they feel the church is a lost cause beyond redemption.

In retrospect, I can say that perhaps the hunger strike wasn’t the best idea, but he was already on the chopping block anyway.

[Beefster]

Just a brief post from the other side. I started following Sam shortly before I was fully disaffected. The moment I found out about his cause, I instantly determined that if he was exed, I was out. I guess I just got a little ahead of the game.

I’ve been a lot happier since leaving the church and living authentically. Best of luck to all of you here, no matter where your journey takes you. You were all very helpful as I wrestled with my faith transition.

PS: the numbers on QuitMormon are pretty crazy right now. I caught a screenshot when there were 777 resignations queued (for reference, it was supposedly in the single digits on Friday evening). That was about an hour ago. The exmormon subreddit has grown 3 or 400 subscribers just today.

[Beefster]

I once asked someone if it was appropriate to give animals priesthood blessings. I got a “no”.

But this is different. People pray for their pets all the time and we don’t bat an eye.

[Beefster]

Anyone else find it odd that Facebook is not on that list?

They also don’t mention Reddit and YouTube, which were already blocked.

[Beefster]

I feel pretty strongly that the church will not be able to sustain itself on Oaks-type dogma. The hard-lining on apostates and gays is slowly draining the life out of the church as it’s losing young people. I guess if they’re trying to sort out the wheat from the tares, they’re doing a good job. Still doesn’t mean it’s sustainable.

[Beefster]

Those are hilarious renditions.

I think all of the “bad guys” of the OT and BoM aren’t as bad as the good guys make them out to be. The “righteous” tend to simply be ignorant of their own flaws.

I didn’t really sink my teeth into the OT until my mission and I gotta tell you, this was one of those things that was a total headscratcher. There were a lot of cases where prophets and such would do unethical things like lie for a birthright in this case. Or commit genocide. The OT is extraordinarily troubling- so much that it makes up the overwhelming majority of fuel for biblical critics. Genesis also reads a bit like a myth. It was my first literal belief to go as a result. Life is much simpler when the flood didn’t happen literally. The logistics of the Ark are impossible and there is strong evidence against a global flood, never mind the implications of genocide.

[Beefster]

I’d bet real money that was in reference to Sunstone.

I’m not exactly sure why, but I think the church leaders feel threatened by alternate ways to live the gospel. Perhaps it’s lack of control or fear of what happened in the days of Paul- a fractured church with little doctrinal consistency.

I think that general category of question is a loyalty test. I wish the church didn’t put so much emphasis on loyalty and obedience.

If the TR question is supposed to fish out affiliations with sites like staylds, I think that leads to some unfortunate conclusions about the church leaders.

[Beefster]

I thought this was a really cool ceremony.

Then again, I don’t really have anything to compare it to. I’ve only ever been to receptions.

[Beefster]

Well Jesus was an actual person. And he’s of exemplary character. If there is a need for a Savior, it would be him.

[Beefster]

All systems have problems. Once an organization reaches a certain size, it becomes corporatized and bureaucratic. Human nature just isn’t well equipped to handle groups larger than about 1500 people. It’s why local LDS leadership generally works pretty well but is a trainwreck at the higher levels.

If the goal is to have a conservative church, gerontocracy is the way to go.

[Beefster]

dande48 wrote:

I want to give my 5% to Doctors Without Borders.”

DWB/MSF is a fantastic charity. I plan on giving my “tithing” to them during SGDQ this year. (SGDQ is a gaming marathon where they play through games as fast as possible and raise money for charity) It will do at least 100x as much good as my tithing ever did.

I don’t really know how to approach it, honestly. The only way I can think of is pointing out alternative charities that do more good in the world than the church, but any TBM is going to be defensive about that.

You could also show scriptural and historical evidence that surplus is what Joseph Smith intended. The whole “pay on gross” thing is not scripturally supported at all.

I think your 5% split contribution is a solid compromise as well, especially if you want to go the route of not paying tithing at all.

[Beefster]

Ilovechrist77 wrote:

I don’t mind paying tithing, even living solely on Social Security Disability, but I do think it’s wrong when it’s taught that people should pay tithing, even when people have to choose between paying it or paying for necessities. That is irresponsible. I would hope Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, the Heavenly Father, would agree with me. I know Christ, in the New Testament, said to the rich man to sell all he had to poor and come and follow Him. I hope He didn’t mean to neglect his physical needs. But I could be wrong.

This.

Tithing has never been an issue for me financially. I could pay on gross right now (even retroactively, I think) and I would be just fine. I take issue more with where it’s going and the rhetoric used to get it out of me.

[Beefster]

^ that

I think good points have been made about the ending of dowries and I totally agree.

I just don’t like it when tithing is presented as a financial panacea. It isn’t. To suggest that it is tithing that brings people out of poverty is not something I see empirical evidence to support. The faith-promoting stories shared over the pulpit are anecdotal evidence and are not representative of the whole.

At best, Nelson breaks even.

[Beefster]

I think that sort of preaching is disgusting and it is scripturally condemned. It is the essence of the Order of Nehors in the BoM.

[Beefster]

I’m not going to water this down: Nelson is teaching BS and I am apalled. Tithing does not break the cycle of poverty and the only reason you might think it does is a result of confirmation bias. When you really get down to the nitty gritty, the faith-promoting stories are either riddled with magical thinking (i.e. making connections that don’t exist) or are more the exception than the rule. People go bankrupt over tithing. People starve and go barefoot over tithing. Tithing is not a silver bullet.

Rant over.

[Author]

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