Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
i remember going through a journey as an active member from age 19 to 29. i gave up smoking at 19 and became active again in the church. i progressed in my “putting off the natural man” to a point in my mid 20’s (23,24) where i was able to obtain a temple recommend. i was a tbm. looking back i had gotten quite judgemental. i had really become socialized as a tbm member. i remember how judgemental i was about sexual issues, so much so i had said something critical to my gay uncle. there was a married man in one of my classes in college and he had a fellow student who was a girlfriend. he didn’t seem to care about what others thought about his infidelity. i remember thinking “how could he act that way and think nothing about how he looks to others ?”. i think you get the drift of my attitude back then being an orthodox Mormon. fast forward to today and now i have viewed some “i-am-an-ex-mormon” videos on YouTube and some of my thinking isn’t much different from some of the ex-mo’s lol !
😆 one thing for sure i am heck of a lot less judgemental today !😆 Hi All, Ray, I admire you for sharing these quotes of Boyd Packer. It takes the edge off the kind of public persona he had as a crusty old man who didn’t seem open to discussion about liberal ideas in Mormonism.
“This CHI is meant to provide “simplification and flexibility”. “Let me underline that.”
it was great of him to say that. i don’t think that message was ever emphasized by the Brethren from what I remember when I was active.
“Pres. Clark once said that too much regimentation can remove revelation. We are in danger of that happening in the Church.”
i think he’s right. regimentation is probably one of the reasons why i didn’t want to come back to church (among other ones).
“ALL meetings should be conducted by the Spirit. It is time for our young men and young women to prophecy and for our old men and women to dream dreams.”
his 2nd quote ties into this 3rd quote. too regimented and you can lose the Spirit.
“There is a danger of establishing the Church and not the Gospel. Planting the Gospel in our hearts MUST accompany having the Church in our lives. Busy-ness can’t replace testimony.”
“Busy-ness can’t replace testimony” sure resonates with me.
“Families are not tools to staff the Church; the Church is a tool to serve families. Don’t over-burden families!”
Amen !
The above quotes show a side of Packer that we didn’t get to see very often.
as to his inflexible side that some in the church may have perceived about him, i had a discussion with someone about how we can tend to lose our empathy(or sympathy) when we are sacrificing our natural impulses for and within a faith community. you or i may have said to ourselves “well goodness, I was able to (fill in the blank) so why can’t he(or she) ?”. A good example might be us feeling proud and self-righteous about our church meeting attendance or obedience to the law of chastity.
i saw news of his passing on a toronto tv news station and i have to admit i did not feel upset of the news because he was so crusty (for lack of a better word) and I think i felt that way because he was so rigid on his views about human sexuality. i really feel the church will be more socially progressive now that he’s passed on.
Mike
Hi All, here is an audio of a (respectful) round table discussion on the church’s “MormonsAndGays.org” website by 4 active mormons. Three are straight, One is gay. Some of you may have heard of Bill Bradshaw and Mitch Mayne who are 2 of the participants. Considering the article first referred to above i thought this round table discussion would be relevant to this discussion thread. Here is the link:
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/2012/dialogue-podcast-4-mormonsandgays-org-roundtable/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.dialoguejournal.com/2012/dialogue-podcast-4-mormonsandgays-org-roundtable/ Mike
i guess if an individual was feeling hot then cold, hot then cold about church, it would be an indication that maybe one has to step back and take a look at how you really want to live your life. i was inactive once when i approached my bishop about baptizing my son. he gave me a list of a few things to do and one was to go to church regularly. attending church regularly was just one of those things that i really didn’t want to do and as much as i wanted to baptize my son i just couldn’t see myself going regularly. realizing this i just decided not to fulfill my bishop’s list because my heart just wasn’t into the to do list. in spite of not baptizing my son, my son knows i love him. even though he knows i may not embrace mormonism he at least knows i embrace a belief in God. i hope sharing this helps ! : )
Sent from my SGH-T959W using Tapatalk 2
i spent about 15-20 minutes composing a reply then my cell phone died lol. my simple answer is much like Ray’s:
keep an open mind. if it draws you closer to God then treasure those parts of the church standard works that do that.
just recently i thought: even if the origins of the Book of Mormon are in question at least my Mormon experiences lead me to believe in the greatest story ever told: the story of Jesus Christ and His mission.
no matter what people say about JS or his body of work bottom line is i still believe in the Savior and that’s what matters most – if nothing else !
Sent from my SGH-T959W using Tapatalk 2
leadership without accountability – a great topic ! here is one idea: Member Satisfaction Oversight Committee Association (MSOMA).
this committee would be made up of members who generally would be called upon by local leaders to investigate how the members are feeling about the church in general and to see what they can do to improve church life for everyone. this committee would do its research and present its findings to the GA’s in a conference/information session held biannually.
i suggest an MSOMA chapter in each stake meeting monthly. then biannually, one representative in each group would meet in SLC to present their findings to the GA’s who then can decide how to act on improving church life satisfaction for the members.
feedback ? ideas anyone ?
When I think of the early church’s practice of polygamy and its former practice of denying the priesthood to men of black ancestry i can’t help but think of the following passages of scripture found in the Book of Mormon: jacob 2:23-29 (Plural Marriage)
Quote:
23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
2 Nephi 26:23-28,33 (None are forbidden to come unto Christ)
Quote:
23 For behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the Lord God worketh not in darkness.24 He doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world; for he loveth the world, even that he layeth down his own life that he may draw all men unto him. Wherefore, he commandeth none that they shall not partake of his salvation.
25 Behold, doth he cry unto any, saying: Depart from me? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; but he saith: Come unto me all ye ends of the earth, buy milk and honey, without money and without price.
26 Behold, hath he commanded any that they should depart out of the synagogues, or out of the houses of worship? Behold, I say unto you, Nay.
27 Hath he commanded any that they should not partake of his salvation? Behold I say unto you, Nay; but he hath given it free for all men; and he hath commanded his people that they should persuade all men to repentance.
28 Behold, hath the Lord commanded any that they should not partake of his goodness? Behold I say unto you, Nay; but all men are privileged the one like unto the other, and none are forbidden.
33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.
Dear Shawn, i am not active but i, like you, have leaned on my spiritual experiences and still exercise a faith in God. i attend another church at present. i, too, have battled with depression and anxiety in the past.
i was at one time a tbm but from a series of life events i became disaffected. i still am to a degree but temper that with the good i see in the lds church.
one thing i keep in mind was that before my disaffection was that socially i struggled as a member. my “weakness” in that area i think is what made my church disaffection that much more pronounced. however, in spite of my social struggles as a member, i had an abundance of spiritual experiences when i was active. this is what has kept me believing in mormonism.
i have considered re-attending but i still feel hesitant. will i be accepted ? then there is a matter of trusting people i use to go to church with from my old ward/stake. i am also newly married and though my wife is a christian, she has not been supportive of me attending my old church.
it has been great attending her church. it reminds me of what i learned in the lds church and the “extras” i learned there in respect to doctrine and scripture that other churches don’t have.
i think someday i will be a regular attender again but when that will be is something i’m not sure about yet because i still have things i have to try to figure out.
what i love about the LDS church is the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Book of Mormon, and the church hymns and primary songs i still remember. all those things keep me connected to the church today even though i don’t attend. i am like a member without a ward (as i have heard others say here at staylds.com)
Sincerely,
Mike
as a matter of my own personal opinion i don’t think it is helpful to call homosexuality a sin in the context that has been used in relation to gay members of the lds faith. after hearing gay members or former gay members share their stories online i am convinced it is a very natural way of being for those who are gay.
after hearing such stories it has made me so much more accepting and compassionate of gays who struggle with the heterocultural mindset of the lds church and of gays in general relating to the mainstream north american culture from years past.
Turinturambar ! there is huge support for gay Mormons like yourself online. to name a few high profile active Mormons you don’t have to look too far. John Dehlin is a huge supporter of the lgbt community. there is Carol Lynn Pearson who has written very supportive books for gay Mormons, and then there is Mitch Mayne from the Oakland, California stake membership. Google these individuals. they are a tremendous support and they are there for you personally. John is actually a facebook friend of mine.
in short you don’t have to take your journey alone.
my 13 year old son came out to my ex-wife recently(his mother). he hasn’t told me yet but i will be there for him when he tells me.
Thanks for sharing that link Ray. Definitely lots of lessons to be learned here. i can somewhat understand Melville and could say i have been in his shoes in terms of social embarrasment when it comes to church.
If Melville kept coming to church in spite of a lack of social acceptance i would say why put yourself through that torture ?
i think a lot of the reason i haven’t been to one of my old wards is because i never really felt welcomed or fully accepted. i would rather forget the painful past than relive it.
one thing i will say is i am a different person than i was back when i had my faith crisis.
what happened happened and it was one of those unforgettable experiences.
in spite of it i still remember the special spiritual experiences i had and it is what keeps me holding on as a beliver. when i am ready i will go back to church but i will be a different type of member.
when one has a faith crisis it isn’t easy staying active. i know because i have been down that road. i had to socially disengage from the church but though i am not active i still remember my spiritual experiences and what i have read scripturally from the standard works.
i have attended a few times since and even renewed a temple recommend at one point.
being away from church socially has helped me. for others who have had faith crises they have stayed active and have worked through their doubts or have found a way to deal with the issues that cause their faith crisis. there is no one perfect answer. everyone is different in how to deal with a faith crisis. there is lots of good advice on how to deal with this period of your life at this forum. we are all hear to listen and help you on your journey – whereever it may lead you. important thing is that you feel supported during this time of confusion and isolation. you don’t have to be alone in this journey and that is why this site was set up – to help those who are on your road by those who have been on that road.
what brought me to stayLDS.com was a youtube.com video by John Dehlin “why people leave the church”. through that i learned of this forum. i found after my faith crisis that there wasn’t too many places to turn for help. there was a lot of negativity online regarding Mormonism. this site became my home because it was pro-mormon and at the same time it was a place we could vent our feelings about how we felt as we went through our faith crisis journey.
what i found, too, was that there are different reasons for a crisis of faith. mine was social in nature but in the end finding this site has helped me heal. i hope you are able to find healing here too.
Sincerely,
BeLikeChrist
My faith crisis didn’t involve delving into church history but as i sought support i saw some who had a faith crisis because of their interpretation of history and it really is unfortunate but my saving grace was seeing the beauty of the doctrine and principles taught in the lds standard works brought forth by the saints in the early days of the church. that to me is what i marvel at ! I stay active mentally here at this site in spite of being physically inactive because i marvel at the substance of the pearl of great price, the doctrine and covenants, and the book of mormon. additionally i have had very memorable spiritual experiences before and after my faith crisis. i had also felt the priesthood power from the saving ordinances that i have been a witness of. it is hard to forget the above and to pretend my experiences didn’t happen.
