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My husband and I have gone to several of them. First at a 7th Day Adventist church that we loved. And then at some Christian non denominational ones. The best part we learned was how to use analogies to express our feeling. It helped in dealing with our kids two. We wanted to become a part of these groups but not allowed because we were Mormon and did not believe in their concept of the trinity. It disappointed us. We did put one on in our ward once for Valentines day for couples and they love it. We did great skits with it. One of my favorite sayings we learned there was: “Honesty, without kindness is credulity.” I used the analogies to write each of my kids love letters on how I felt about them and they cherish those letters. I also recall a post card my husband sent me while on a business trip and was missing me. It said, “Being without you is like walking around with one shoe on all day.” I loved it. The marriage encounters were beneficial but very draining at times, especially the deeper encounters. My sister was asked if she and her husband had oral sex. She told him it was none of his business and walked out. When my oldest son was a teenager he did the same when asked about masturbation. What other churches do this? Annoys me especially when I think of some of the stuff JS did morally behind Emma’s back. We went to the “City of Joseph” musical in Nauvoo for years with our kids, ward, and relatives. It was a great family time and we loved it. It strengthened everyone’s testimony at the time as it was a feel good musical. Yes, there were always anit-Mormon groups handing out their tracts and I would always read them. We had civil talks with them and they were nice in Nauvoo. Not so nice when we went to the Palmyra pageant. They had big signs saying “Mormons’ were sex crazed which I thought was funny at the time. The businesses in Nauvoo often told me the city would go under if it weren’t for the pageant so I do see tourism industry hurting business in pageant cities. I read a post somewhere lately that talked about why they thought the lds church was going away from the word ‘Mormon” and eliminating the pageants. It gave 4 points. One was that the church did not want to be associated with the word Mormon anymore because it wanted to become known as a mainstream Christian religion like the community of Christ (RLDS church did). Two, it wants the book of Mormon to become known just as ‘inspired’ writings. The lds church knows that it is becoming more obvious that that the book of Mormon is not a historical or culture book like it has claimed all these years. The Bible has lots of archaeological support but BofM almost none.Plus, it is become more obvious that JS plagiarized a lot of the book. I just could not remember what point 3 and 4 was of this post I saw. Just not sure of the true motives for the changes. Finding everyones’ comments interesting.
I served in Austria in 1969-71. Looking back, I can see how dangerous a mission can be. Just tracking door to door, you never know who is behind a door and could attack you. We had guys in underwear greet us at the door who welcomed us to come in and ‘teach them the gospel.” We had mentally ill people jump and scream at us. Once, we had a peeping tom watch us sleeping. When we opened our bedroom door in the apartment with many other rooms, this guy stood there in his underwear leering at us. We screamed and scared us to death. Lastly, a drunk Turk attacked my companion and I while walking home from church. He punched my companion in the stomach and chin and kicked her in the back on her bad knees she was to have surgery on. I had an asthma attack and started screaming. Luckily, two elders heard us and came to our aid. They dragged him to the police station but the police only wanted to know where he had touched us and had dirty minds. We were told that women out on the street after 8 pm were considered hookers in the area we worked in. Since we knew God allows free agency and rarely interferes in that, I knew bad things can happen. One companion hit on me sexually while I was sleeping one night. I froze and it scared the living daylights out of me. In the morning I told her that I did not understand why she did that but that it better not happen again. Some how these stories never get told in our fast and testimony meetings. dande48 wrote:
bridget_night wrote:
.. “Satan” just means “Whatever I passionately don’t like”. Pineapple on Pizza? Inspired by Satan.Thanks Heber…I appreciate your perspective and the discussion here. One of my best girlfriends, who is strong lds replied to me about this today: I guess I took it as ” from this day forward “. I don’t believe that the Lord was offended by the name mormon church in the past. Now that he has revealed that we are to refer to his church using the full title, by us not doing as he has commanded would offend. The Lord knows and allows the progression of his church and when the time is right he reveals the next step. There are so many new converts that have no issues with one name versus the other. It’s only an issue with members who have always used the nickname and are now required to only use the full name. It’s the nature of people to resist change, even for something as simple as a name. When I was introduced to you, you went by the name of Ruth. After a time you decided that you wanted to go by your middle name of Bridget, those people who had known you as Ruth probably had a more difficult time remembering to call you Bridget. Since I hadn’t known you as Ruth for very long it was easy for me to address you as Bridget, however if those who had always known you as Ruth refused to call you by your chosen name it would be offensive. I believe that those who are transgender suffer from the same thing when people refuse to use their preferred pronoun and to recognize the new name that identifies who they are today not the day they were born. I look at it as respect, I respect your chosen name, I respect all transgender people who have chosen the name they identify with. I respect the Savior who no longer desires that his church be identified by a name that has worked in the past. His reasons are not important to me and I will use His preferred name, just like I use your preferred name. Not to do so is offensive.
“Anyone who comes to know the man Mormon, through the reading and pondering of his words, anyone who reads this precious trove of history which was assembled and preserved in large measure by him, will come to know that Mormon is not a word of disrepute, but that it represents the greatest good—that good which is of God.” -Gordon B Hinkley
“The church’s name is not negotiable When the savior clearly states what the name of his church should be, and even precedes his declaration with, ‘Thus shall my church be called,’ he is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used and adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended.”
-Russell M Nelson
Which is it?
What bothered me most was when President Nelson said:” By allowing the nicknames of the Church to be used, adopted or even sponsored they have offended God and given a major victory to Satan!! Isn’t this like throwing Hinckley and Monson under the bus? So was “Meet the Mormons” inspired by Satan? Very confusing. Mark 9:39 38John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone else driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 39But Jesus replied, “Do not stop him. No one who performs a miracle in My name can turn around and speak evil of Me. 40For whoever is not against us is for us.… Isn’t Jesus telling us that you do not have to even be Mormon/cojclds to be considered a follower of him.
Hi Squarepeg, I do not post or come here often anymore, but on occasion, like today, i miss reading the amazing discussions on this group. I love people like you who are so honest, and think deeply about things. I can sooo relate to what you wrote. It is so painful and confusing. Like you mentioned in your post; “on one hand the scriptures and people tell you that God will comfort you through your trials” and “would God give a man a stone, if he asks for a piece of bread?” We grow up hearing about a ‘loving Heavenly Father” who knows all the hairs on your head and is mindful of sparrows. I had an amazing, wonderful earthly Father that I could go to for anything so I loved the idea of a having a Heavenly Father that loved me as his daughter and child. There were times in my life that I did feel comforted and a presence of great love. BUT, I have often felt like you….no comforting or help at all. During the most horrible childbirths, I felt no help. The last 5 years I got extremely painful Rheumatoid Arthritis. I was in screaming pain and begging God to help me. NOTHING happened…I just suffered like hell. I was angry that if there was a God, He was cruel; that I would not treat a dog like that. I did not know how to deal with these feelings and thought. Going to the temple and reading the Bof Mormon just put a dark cloud over my mind.
I did ask a church historian once why God made us live by faith on this earth, rather than writing across the sky, “And now a word from your creater.” I desperately long to have a personal relationship with God where He could talk to me like my dad did. Praying felt like talking to the ceiling. This historian told me that he thought the reason God had us live by faith is so He and we could see what was in our hearts. If we knew for sure there was a big reward or punishment in the next life we might obey or be good for the reward or fear of punishment. But, not knowing, God could see what was in our hearts…..what we would do or how we would live not knowing. I then decided I wanted to be a good person, whether God existed or not. Just to be good for goodness sake. It gave me some peace. Most of the time, I find my prayers answered through other people and loved ones. I do believe we are the eyes and ears of God for each other. Hope this helps.
Bridget
[attachment=0]12688147_10153874277677731_4453640473012533003_n.jpg[/attachment] Quote:I also understand the impact on vulnerable people enough to know that hearing, “We will never accept you as you are,” is brutal and soul-shattering.
Thanks for saying this Ray. A man named, John Bonner posted this today on Mormons Building Bridges and said I could share it on any group. I think this should be a conference talk:
Quote:“My mom came to spend the day with me yesterday. She brought me lunch.
We sat on the couch together, eating buttermilk biscuits and holding hands. She told me her 88 year-old visiting teacher came to see her that morning.
Her visiting teacher had just returned from her son’s funeral. He took his own life two weeks ago. They cried together; ministering to each other. I imagine my mom held her hand, too.
After lunch, she did the dishes and cleaned my kitchen. I said she didn’t need to do that. She just hugged me and went about doing it anyway.
I told her what Elder Oaks had said about me and my community. She said simply, “he’s wrong.” She then told me how handsome I look in my Love Loud t-shirt and asked if I’d gone on any promising dates lately. I told her I hadn’t. She expressed her confidence, as she always does, that I will find someone — and that she will love him.
My mom isn’t an official Mormon Mama Dragon. She is a soft-spoken introvert, like me. She hasn’t joined any Facebook groups or given any addresses at events or rallies.
But make no mistake, my mom is a dragon. Her particular brand of fire may not scorch the social media landscape with powerful rhetoric, but her quiet fire burns in my heart. It has kept me alive.
My mom won’t be receiving any public awards or commendations. She won’t be interviewed by news outlets and she won’t be spearheading any marches or protests. She will raise her hand in Sunday School to express her love for her son. And then she will go see him. She will wrap her arms around him and tell him she loves him, no matter what, just as she has done every day for the past 39 years.
Hers is Christ’s work. It is His ministry. And she will go on doing it until her last breath.
I have no doubt that if there is a God who watches over us, He would have smiled down on my mother yesterday. He would have seen that His Son’s earthly mission of compassion, of love unrestrained, is carried out in living rooms and kitchens — not over pulpits.
This is my mother’s legacy: to sense when to bring food and hold my hand, to show up, to listen, to know when I am hurting, to go on loving me — through everything.
She may never have a memorial raised in her honor, but if she did, I hope the inscription would read: “Sherrie Bonner loved and never wavered. Love was her work and her calling. She knew in the end, it was the only thing that ever mattered.”
Reuben wrote:
DarkJedi and mom3 both bring up the technically true point that excommunication standards have changed. But…bridget_night wrote:
Many of you talk about JS being imperfect and making mistakes but still a prophet. Problem I have is that if any of us had made those same mistakes we would be excommunicated. Scriptures talk about qualifications of a bishop or leader and JS would not qualify. Soo… as much good as he did, that is a problem for me.
I really don’t think BN’s problem is changing standards, here. I might be reading too much into it, so be warned that my response might mostly have to do with my own problem with Joseph Smith.
One of the stories I’ve read from people who have left the Church that really stuck with me was from a young man who couldn’t stop masturbating. His shelf crashed soon after listening to Elder Andersen’s talk “Faith Is Not By Chance, But By Choice.” The quote that bothered him the most was “give Brother Joseph a break.” He couldn’t shake the thought, “When do
Iget a break?” I think this sticks with me because it so starkly illustrates the double standard we apply. Joseph gets a break, but the rest of us don’t. Joseph is assumed to be able to tap into the very thoughts of God no matter what he’s done, but we have to be absolutely pure to even qualify for a subtle feeling. Joseph can apparently heal the sick even while being unfaithful to his wife and lying to all of Nauvoo, but we have to be cleansed every whit from our iniquity.
We believe that God is no respecter of persons, so shouldn’t we have the same standards for access to the powers of heaven as Joseph Smith? It seems a just God would set things up that way. But as far as I can tell, most active members live more righteously than Joseph, but experience access that, compared to Joseph’s reported access, is positively feeble.
I can think of three explanations. The first is that Joseph’s access to the powers of heaven has been absurdly overclaimed. The second is that the worthiness necessary for such access has been absurdly overclaimed. The third explanation is a mix of the previous two.
Frankly, for someone who wants to believe, all of those explanations suck in some way.
Another explanation is that access to the powers of heaven doesn’t stay constant over time. This explanation is the most consistent with members’ lived experience, but is preached strenuously against in the Book of Mormon. Not only that, but it blames the person who wants a miracle for not having enough faith, so it sucks, too.
Basically, every explanation that accounts for Joseph Smith’s behavior, our doctrine, and our lived experience, well, sucks.
I so appreciate this post Reuben. Thank you. Bridget
Many of you talk about JS being imperfect and making mistakes but still a prophet. Problem I have is that if any of us had made those same mistakes we would be excommunicated. Scriptures talk about qualifications of a bishop or leader and JS would not qualify. Soo… as much good as he did, that is a problem for me. Part of mine and my husbands’ were not getting spiritual confirmations of the church and BofM has promised. We had often fasted and prayed about whether JS was a true prophet, the church was true, the BofM, and before going to the temple. We really wanted it to be true and had hoped but the spiritual confirmations did not come. We had negative or non spiritual feelings/experiences in the temple, and when reading parts of the BofM. After reading Grant Palmers book on Origins and his podcasts we just could not believe in JS lds scriptures and the church anymore. The people were not the issue and we still love some of the Mormon teachings but felt that God was leading us out of the church. Yet we still hope some lds teachings are true. Can it be a mixed bag; part true/ part false? Last year my brother (a TBM) called me to talk about our leaving the lds church (but not officially taken our names off the records). It really bugged me when he said that, I would not have my marriage for eternity, because of leaving the church. What he said was very manipulative. I told him that we know longer believed in the lds church and temple ceremonies to be from God and that God would not condemn us or our marriage if we thought something was false. I told my brother we had not taken our names off the church records and that if God ever told us to come back to the lds church, we would. That seemed to appease him. So many members believe that no one but those sealed in the temple will have their marriages for eternity. Jesus always taught the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law, so I go by that. Great question, ‘always thinking”. When we moved to Florida 7 years ago, we had a bad run in with the new bishop. Plus this new ward was very cold. I also did not feel like I was growing spiritually anymore attending there. So, I attended some other Christian churches in our area and made some wonderful friends. Their Bible study classes were so stimulating with great discussions Their church meetings were very spiritual and uplifting. Made me realize that God works through all churches and all good people. When we got a new bishop, he came to visit us and find out why we were not attending any more. We told him why and that we no longer believed in the lds church. He asked us if we wanted our names removed from the church and we said no. We told him that even though we were attending other churches now, we had no intent to join any of them. He told us that if we did join another church we would be taken off the church records. We told him that even though we did not believe in the lds church anymore, we also did not know if the lds church was not true. That if God ever wanted us to come back to the lds church we would, but for now we feel that He wants us in these other churches. This bishop was fine with that and just emails us the ward newsletters every month now.
