[brit-exmo]

awesomeness

[brit-exmo]

rich wrote:

yes its fair to say that I`m a stranger in a strange land mixing it with the tribes of the North

know that feeling, though a northerner by birth, I spent most of my formative years ‘darn sarf’ and have not managed to shake of the accent despite living up here again for 15 years

rich wrote:

I can imagine that being the prodigal son can hang over you in many wards. What brought you back? One of the greatest and most immediate results of losing faith was that I lost the `us` and `them` mentality. Almost straight away there was just an `us`. I hear thats pretty common though from people I`ve spoken to.

I never truly left, even through my angry at the church years I would still attend ward and stake socials, though sacrament meeting was a no-go for me. So I was always connected, my wife still went too, plus most of my extended family are members too, so I can’t really escape it.

What brought me back, was the realization that no matter what I might think the mormon church is ‘my tribe’ – I was brought up in it, loved youth and YSA, and still have a nice network of friends throughout the church. And even though there is a lot wrong with the church, what it has become especially at the local level is greater than it’s dodgy foundations. What brought me back, was the thinking ‘it’s not all bad’ and the thought that I could make the church work for me, rather than the other way round.

I think if my wife left the church too, I would go with her, I quite fancy trying a non-denominational church like the Quakers or the Universalist church. But then again if she chooses to stay then fair enough, I think I can make the LDS church work for me.

[brit-exmo]

mackay11 wrote:

There was some open letter by 12 british members online somewhere. Do any of you know the signatories?

I am in contact with most of the people who signed that letter, and they are all pretty much ‘out’ of the church, but they have a fondness and love for the place that they invested much of their life in.

Personally the tone of the letter doesn’t really float my boat, as I think its a bit too confrontational and has too much of a scatter gun approach, plus I think its far too loooooooong….. I have told them all what I think of the letter, and that’s fine. Though kudos to them for actually doing something.

I like DBMormons approach of offering to help the church leaders, who IMHO are woefully unequipped to deal with faith crisis. This approach builds a relationship of trust (Heartsell tm ) so we can then move on to a better dialog around changing some of the churches acceptance of ‘non-orthodox’ belief.

[brit-exmo]

hi rich

‘eya’ from another brit! Nice to see a few more of us on here… kudo’s to you for keeping up appearances for 16 years that’s some going! if you know kristmaces family i am assuming you are up north somewhere, same here, though don’t take that as an obligation to share any more personal info, i know what a fine line it can be regards online identity and the church.

interested to hear your input, when you can, despite posting via phone! i do a daily commute into leeds and find good posting time on the train…. and for listening to podcasts (mormon stories and mormon expression are good!)

I had my crisis 10 years ago but was pretty open about it, I should have taken your route and said nowt! As I am now finding it harder to integrate due to the perception of being the ‘anti’ in the ward.

[brit-exmo]

Hello from another Brit! Nice to see a few of us appearing on here now, as with mackay11, feel free to PM and say hello.

You are totally right on taking it slow, if I had any advice to myself 10 years ago, that way I could have stayed in, rather than outing myself as the apostate in the ward, it would be easier for me at my current point.

[brit-exmo]

I would like to see the church become more personal, and less about the centre and coreleation and more about the local stakes.

I am thinking in terms of ability to set policy, funding, curriculum.

Plus all the other good stuff about open history, open finances, less authoritarian.

[brit-exmo]

The North West of England is a hotbed of apostates and liberal thinkers too!

And we have better beer

[brit-exmo]

Will PM you

[brit-exmo]

Just chipping in to say I really like this post and it crystalises something I have been thinking about for a while

I think those of us who have either left and come back, or just stayed throughout our faith crisis, are a huge untapped resource to help the leadership with the increasing numbers of others who are having questions. Here in the UK I am hearing of more and more people being called into the bishops office, or going themselves to discuss issues around church history / doctrine, and 9 times out of 10 the bishop (and stake president, and home teacher, even area authority) make a complete pigs ear of the situation and just make things worse.

There has been a lot of discussion on our UK Doubting LDS facebook group, and I think there is a genuine desire amongst the disaffected to help the church out, its just a matter of how do we do that, and who do we speak to?

I have one or two ‘friends’ who are in positions of leadership in the UK LDS Church, so I am going to float the idea, but don’t want to push too hard, as the cynic in me thinks because of the belief in the preisthood, and ‘being the one true church’ anything percived as ‘external advice’ is treated with suspicion.

[brit-exmo]

Would paying for local things directly out of my own pocket, mess up ward budgets?

For example in my professional life sometimes if you don’t use all your budget, next years is often less. So if the ward is spending less because I am paying for things locally will that stop them getting their full share next time around?

I never did the Ward Clerk calling

[brit-exmo]

Is it the Cardston area?

We go over to Edmonton every other year for Holiday, as I have family there (brother married a local girl) and they talk about the Cardston area as being very churchy.

One day we will drive down from Edmonton to Utah and take in Cardston, we love Alberta btw.

[brit-exmo]

doug wrote:

Welcome. I enjoyed reading about your perspective. I appreciate your tone and the uniqueness of your position with regard to the church.

I think that people’s success in negotiating a healthy path through all of this often depends on having an understanding spouse or some other close friend in whom they can confide. I don’t mean to pry, but you mentioned being married at one point. I’m wondering how your wife, if you’re still married, feels about all of this.

Thanks for your nice words, it is appreciated.

So my wife and I are still married after 15 good years, she did take it hard when I first stopped attending, and even went slightly less active herself. But our love transcends religion and she was able to see that my moving away from the church made me a happier person. Now I am starting to attend Sunday services a bit more I can tell it makes her happier too.

Ideally I would like to be able to baptise my kids, as I think it would be important for them, even though I don’t believe myself I can appreciate the emotional impact (positive) it would haveon my family. But the discussions with the bishop will be interesting on that, it’s a few years off anyway (oldest is 5) I guess I have time to work up to that.

[brit-exmo]

I also think that these things become an issue when people start thinking that ‘by not doing this thing, I am committing a sin’ – and if you see someone else not doing this thing why you are, there is the temptation to judge.

So by not wearing a white shirt on Sunday I am a sinner

It’s a real slippery slope to becoming a miserable micro-manager

[brit-exmo]

Church this week for me was Stake Conference

We had a new presidency called so it was mainly testimonies from the outgoing and incoming teams, and a lot of testifying as to the belief that the process is led by God

I was mainly being Dad, looking after the kids why my TBM wife listened.

[brit-exmo]

Thanks for the replies people – agree with you all its a difficult position to be in.

I think it’s harder to return to activity than ‘staying in’ – in returning you are almost going back on a previously stated position, but with staying in you can make the transition without making any public statements (verbal or non-verbal) about your change in belief.

And yes some of the exmo’s can be angry, but who am I to criticise as I was there at some point! I think it’s important that they have a place to be, plus I am a serial community creator, I can’t help it

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