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Good job getting it out there, OTF. Tons of great thoughts in the reply. The only thing I would add is that when I feel this way, cause I have felt the EXACT same things, I go back to my study of THE ESSAY ( http://www.staylds.com/?page_id=462 ) . It is long, but I took like three hours to actually journal and think about what mindsets I could use, and planned ways that I could trade up my religion. This was huge because I am now living it under my terms, and I can make adjustments as I see fit. SO freeing. I know Brian Johnston had to have been feeling the spirit as he wrote that piece because it is inspired.12 women!!! Sounds like a great ward
😆 As a side note, boob jobs are horrible (not for cancer or humiliating things)! Maybe we need to start a topic on this, because they are much worse than tattoos, in my opinion. Boob jobs are emblems of societies’ pressure on women; the same pressure that leads to so much depression and feelings of shame. It comes from the objectifying of women. How sad is it that women feel so inadequate that they will take those risks? I understand I am being very general. I’m not out with a broad brush, well I am, let’s just say I won’t judge, but this is what I think. I will also venture to say that where there is a normal woman wanting augmentation there is likely a sex addict nearby. That might be harsh, but I am just saying that I would bet and I would win most of the time.Best wishes to you.
disillusion wrote:So I am left, leaning on my own shaky legs for the first time. Not taking the words of the GAs as automatic scripture for the first time. Feeling the closest to God I have ever felt. Feeling guilty because I’m not doing the “supposed to” of blind faith. Feeling guilty because my spouse has told me that if I receive revelation that is counter to the teachings of our prophets, I am being led by satan.
Why can’t I trust in myself? Even if it leads me counter to church teachings? I know what I feel. I know I am worthy of my temple recommend. I know I am loved and led and supported by God. Shouldn’t I worry more about God than man? Shouldn’t I lean more on the undeniable impressions on my heart than what a church leader has said?- he could have got it wrong, been lying, or not been worthy himself to lead me.
Wow. My heart goes out to you disillusion. I echo the comments about how an organization must think, but I am sure that is something you have already considered.
Quote:I have had to start at the very most basic levels and reevaluate each tenet, each precept and decide of I feel it is true. I have come to rely heavily on my right to personal revelation. I have actually grown incredibly close to God in this process.
THIS is awesome! Focus on this. The Church has officially taught us to do this. This is the key of the gospel. It is how you came to your beliefs in the first place. Trust that. You know what you know, you have seen what you have seen, you are obviously coming from a genuine place. Please, give yourself credit for that, and feel OK about it. You talk about “shaky legs”. I have been teaching my kids how to ice skate, excited about the joy they are going to experience when they can glide and fly. They are only use to the stable and safe world of walking, there is so much for them to learn as their brains try to figure out this skating thing. I can give them all sorts of tips, but as they keep trying and persist when they fall on their butts, they are going to get it. You are on the right path, your path. On the other end is the peace that comes from being honest with yourself and others.
You cannot trust yourself, because the books you have read, the friends and family who support you have not taught you how to or modeled it in anyway. I am assuming here, but I don’t know. Look for yourself. Are you closely associated with people who question everything, and when they discover something contrary to common belief have said something about it regardless of personal and real consequences? I did. My gay brother, and all my close associations would point out how crazy and messed up he was. So for me, I was always shown that if you just follow the formula all is well, and that is more important than questioning. I was always taught to be obedient and to not let doubt get in the way of following the guidance of my leaders. All my role models did just that. So for us to say, “Wo, wo, wo something is wrong here.” is very scary. Hang out here a little longer, the fear will fade. Or just wait around a couple of years, because I think this type of thinking is going to be way more common and you will have had a lot more people in your sphere showing and modeling how to be true to yourself and still follow your convictions about the Church.
Here is a tip that helps me. I imagine being in front of God, and explaining where I was genuinely coming from. The Dialogue for you might go like this.
HF or JC: Why didn’t you strictly follow the GA’s of The Church? Why did you question their guidance?
You: Well I saw them do things that I just couldn’t trust. Also, I followed my heart and mind, praying to you, and felt your support. (continue to give the same things you said above) I genuinely thought I was doing what was right.
HF of JC: That’s cool. Good to have you.
My personal policy takes into account the idea that as a Church there does need to be unity, and if I perceive there is no huge cost to my family our that is not clearly immoral, I will go along with it. But if my heart and mind tell me there is something not right, I don’t go with it. The intro reading to this website is such a hugely important read. Check it out if you haven’t. Everyone is a cafeteria Mormon or Christian. We here in this forum, and even the Church itself gives you permission to do this. So give yourself permission. This is faith. This is belief. Which is not necessarily the realm of absolute reality or truth, and knowledge of it. It is a personal thing between you and your God.
I am going to admit that I am very curious about what sorts of things you have experienced. I understand you might not want to share for fear of shedding bad light on the Church, or maybe even risking your career. This is an admittedly selfish question but, can you tell us, even generally, what you have seen? I respect your decision one way or another, but also imagine there has got to be a part of you that feels people should know what is going on. You know that millions of us trust 10% of our money and all of our hearts to a perception that our leaders or God-led, humble, and righteous leaders. We make big decisions based on a perception that may not be completely true. There has got to be a part of you who realizes the struggle you are going through is important for you, and based in truth, thus important for others to experience. Regardless, welcome to these forums, and God bless in your journey.
Oh man! Sorry. So then I am a little scared, because I am doing tithing that way. I was thinking about donating to the HUmanitarian stuff like Fast Offering or the perpetual education fund. I justified that I was trading up my Mormonism, and that I could truthfully answer that I was keeping the law of tithing by doing this, but I guess I might need to be a little worried about that. SO far I have been able to walk the middle ground and keep TR, but this sort of worries me. Good luck.
HSAB wrote:So I’m left with the decision of do I get married in the temple or not? Should I make commitments to God knowing that I probably will not be keeping them? It’s also spiraling me downward in the rest of my beliefs a little bit, because if I don’t believe garments are necessary-which I’m pretty sure I don’t. (But, again, haven’t been through the temple yet.) Then, what else might not be true or necessary? I’ve been doing a lot of research on the history of garments and it’s making me feel like they were not meant to be what we use them as now. Has anyone been through something similar? Does anyone have any insight? I know 100% I believe in the book of mormon and that the priesthood power is real, but aside from that I am starting to really question.
Reading this post stirs up emotion for me. I loved my first temple experience, and I am not out to bash the temple. I have big problems with it, but I also love it. It is kind of crazy. I want to respect the ritual, and hopefully someone will let me know if I am out of line, but the covenants you make in the temple aren’t really explained. You are given one chance, at the beginning to accept or reject all the covenants you will make. After that the ceremony gets symbolic and progressive, and after each step you will be told of the covenant you can enter into, then asked if you will accept it. There is a little time to think, but you may not feel a chance to ask about it. Hey, if you do do this, remember that temple workers are beautiful saints who really care about you. There is a pause button. Don’t feel rushed. If I could go back in time I would be brave enough to not get rushed and would ask for explanation or maybe even more time.
It seems like this is going to eat away at you. I personally would not make a covenant I feel I am going to break. The thing that concerns me when I feel I have to do something I don’t feel good about in the Church, is why I do it. For me I realize it is often fear. I don’t want to be motivated by fear in religion.
“What else might be true or necessary.” This is a great question. I suggest you pray and journal on this one. But be prepared because your heart may tell you some things that are a little hard to take at first, but you will realize you knew it the whole time. Good luck to you. This is no small thing and I hope it works out for you.
Wow, Wow, Wow. IT is so amazing to hear you journey, and see how closely it mirrors mine. That is the cool thing about this community, being able to relate like that. What is cooler is how hearing your first post I wanted to tell you several things that helped me, but would see in the next post that you figured it out with God. I don’t think I have anything else to add. You are devoted to following your heart, mind, and God and only good could come from that. You are an example of strength and totally inspiring to me. Ann wrote:This site has been a sanity-saver. Best wishes and I hope you enjoy it. (May I ask about your online name?
🙂 )Thank you. I feel so welcomed, and happy to find this site. I just need to make sure I set boundaries on time. Yes, you may ask me about my name. My brother’s medival fighting club called him turker. SO I am bro of turker
🙄 SIlly I know, but I am proud to be Turker’s bro.opentofreedom wrote:broofturker
I do NLP emotional release processing. I totally agree in releasing emotions and giving them to God.(I may have interpreted what you said to my own beliefs/actions. So excuse me if that isn’t what you meant). I do this during mediation, sacrament, before I fall asleep. Whenever I feel “stuck”. It really helps to get to the bottom of the actual reason of the anger.
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Thank you for your insights. I think you interpreted me right on. I think this practice of digging deeper into our anger and facing the reality of what causes it by meditating, writing, and now posting is good for the soul, and if there is just a lingering fear or sadness we can release to God or our higher power or the Universe.
Quote:DW places a high value on what others think so for her embarrassment might lead to anger. Embarrassment is a very uncomfortable emotion and anger feels more comfortable. For me my trigger is feeling disrespected and that can lead quickly to anger. This might translate in a church setting to someone teaching a concept that disrespects me and people like me – but more particularly if I express an idea that is completely discounted and devalued. Maybe that has to do with embarrassment too.
😳 Thanks, Roy. I never though about feeling disrespected, but I totally have. I spotted the embarrassment, but, wow, good call on the disrespect. It is disrespectful to have ideas poo-pooed especially from your people, and that leads to sadness and confusion for me.
Look at us. Aren’t we just the models of feeling
Ann wrote:broofturker wrote:… anger is a secondary emotion, the tip of the iceburg, that can subside as we address the emotions that make the rest of the iceburg, and maybe even give them to God.
Thanks for your post. If I’m missing something, I’m sorry, but what do you think the primary emotion is?
The primary emotionS (There is usually a whole slew of things going on) would be things like fear and sorrow. For example, when a person is mad because their spouse leaves a mess every day, despite promising otherwise, anger is the tip of the iceburg, underneath is sorrow that you are stuck with someone who doesn’t value you enough to live up to your expectations. You may feel guilty for feeling that. You may feel anxious because you are trying to stuff the feeling that maybe your spouse just doesn’t give you the priority you would like. Fear could linger as you imagine that the rest of your life you may have to live like this. Even this example leaves off a host of other thoughts and feelings that may be fueling your anger.
Hey, I am no expert on this but I hope it helps out.
Oh man! I know these feeling well. So maybe check out my post on title Help with Anger in this forum. Let me share a couple of other things that have helped me. Regarding Abraham; check out Hebrews 11:17. Abraham knew what was up. He is not praised because he was such a staunch follower of God, so obedient that he would even kill his own son. It was that he had enough faith in the promise of God’s covenant, which only came through Isaac, that he believed God would raise him back up. But that is a specific thought, let me give you a more general one to apply to your grief. It is OK to feel the way you do. If that is how you feel then why believe otherwise? I found freedom when I realized that I have a choice to believe whether words that command a people to pillage and enslave, state that humanity deserves infinite torture, or proclaim that the way to exaltation is through plural marriage are from God. I feel in my gut and in my mind they are not, and that is the realm of belief and I am free to believe that and need not worry about fundamental arguments about fallibility of scripture or any of that. I know they are not true. Well what does that mean about the truthfulness of the Church? I don’t know. Do a study if you care that much, but first bask in the freedom of accepting what your heart and mind tell you. You might find the questions it creates are not as uncomfortable as you once thought the were. Good luck, my friend, I hope this helps.
