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It just seems like at the core, the BoM has to be literally true or there is no point in the lds faith. what do we believe then? if it just self help book based on vague symbolism, well there’s a sectoin of those at the library. if it is not divine text then it might as well be from oprah. Ok so you guys are saying that the BoM is crap. If that is true, then the whole religion is a hoax. If the book is true, then it seems that it tells me that the rest of mormonism is superfluous. not a good day for Brown’s testimony. Well the mormon church is the “only true church” and “the only way to salvation”, so what good is looking at other points of view? it is pretty obvious that our father wouldn’t abandon us to endless torture and hellfire. Would you do that to your own children? Heber13 wrote:Sometimes I think this happens. The rules get made to apply to EVERYONE, only because the minority of people need it. Perhaps that is the price we pay to belong to a group. The rules are not perfect, but they are the safest for everyone.
Quote:The kingdom of heaven is governed by law, and when we receive any blessing, it is by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is based (see D&C 130:20–21; 132:5). The Lord has told us that through our obedience and diligence we may gain knowledge and intelligence (see D&C 130:18–19).
I have a real hard time with that scripture because it seems to imply that the only way you can get a blessing is by following a specific law and that God only follows a specific checklist. We all know people that have been blessed significantly while not obeying church “rules”. So how can that be true? We also know that blessings and trials come at random even though we may have been living all of the LDS church’s laws for a long time.
I guess what I hate is that all the rules that the church is so adamant about, have little to do with the message of Christ in the scriptures. Church attendance, tithing, word of wisdom, home teaching numbers, wearing temple garmets, rated-r movies – the list goes on. What does that have to do with love, charity and peace? It’s especially hard when you know most were rules made by a committee of people in suits and not directly from the Lord. Perhaps that is one of god’s tests, my wife says. Will we submit to rules even when we know they are asinine? Personally, I don’t know if I can and it seems to put my conscience in disarray when I do.
Another thing to think about is whether you are obeying the rules of the church for yourself and God, or so you don’t look ‘bad’ to others. If it is the latter, then what is the point anyway?
Fair points. I definitely agree on the zero tolerance policies. So I get drunk a couple times a year on special occasions, does that make me an alcoholic? Same logic would apply to other things as well. And honestly, judging from the lines outside the stores when the latest “must have” video game or book is released, there are certainly some unhealthy relationships with things other than drugs and porn.
Just to take this further off course, what about the church’s position that things like porn, alcohol and drugs deaden the spirit. Can you look at porn and be spritually uplifted in the same day? Can you if you are drunk? Is that any reason to completely abstain?
I haven’t been incredibly happy the past couple of years, either, and I don’t know why. I probably blame the church a little bit too much, when in reality it is my own decision and attitude that makes the difference. As for true happiness, it is all that sappy stuff that money can’t buy and that I take for granted. Love, family, friends. I guess I will add experiencing new things, which I guess money definitely can buy.
Good post, Orson. It doesn’t make me feel any better about child abuse but it is some good food for thought. Heber13 wrote:cwald wrote:I know that ONLY I can take out the garbage correctly.
🙂
My wife often tells me how good I am at remembering to take the garbage to the road on garbage day. She is just no good at it, she hates that. (Gently stroking Heber’s ego).“Yeah, I’m pretty good at taking the garbage out…here let me help you…DOH!
:wtf: She did it to me again!”Yeah, luckily I’ve been smart enough to pull the reverse trick on laundry.
I can see where you are coming from. But I don’t agree with the Twilight book reference. I think porn is different in that you are seeking out something specifically for arousal, it’s not a somewhat innocent side effect. In that regard, I think it is more like drugs. You are seeking something for the sole reason of triggering the pleasure center of your brain, and that can definitely become addictive. On some controllable level, you are right that it isn’t going to be a big societal problem. Perusing through the latest issue of Playboy isn’t going to turn anyone into a sex offender. But just like drugs, for every few that can keep it at that level, there is someone crossing the line into ruin. I’m not trying to act like I am perfect here, I’m not innocent in this regard. But I think the church is right in taking a stance on this, because it has the potential to get out of hand and ruin families along the same lines as other addictions. Cadence wrote:The prophet tells us what he wants us to know, not always what we wish to know.
If the prophet is telling us what
hewants us to know, who is telling us what God wants us to know? I think it is just a Priesthood thing. In matter of the Priesthood, the man presides over the home because that is his duty. Does it mean he gets to tell his wife what housework and cooking to do and rule with an iron fist? No, because that has nothing to do with the Priesthood. I think it is more about making sure the matter of spirituality are taken care of, like blessings, prayers, teaching. But usually this isn’t the case. Women seem far more consistent with that, at least in my family and extended family. jamison wrote:Jesus has to have a Nemesis otherwise what would be the point.
Perhaps the enemy to Christ is ourselves. Really that’s who we have to overcome in this life, isn’t it?
DevilsAdvocate wrote:
Lately my wife has been checking up on me and asking, “Have you been looking at porn (again)?” Of course, there is only one acceptable answer from her perspective and I worry that she will be able to tell if I am lying so most of the time it is easier to just not worry about porn that much anymore. At some point I will probably end up having a major fight with her over this even though it would be much easier to just avoid the issue altogether because I still think it is such a stupid little thing to worry so much about and act like it is so important so maybe this means I am addicted to being right.Lots of women have a problem with their husbands seeking arousal from other women. I don’t think this is really something you pin on the LDS church. Think about it from her point of view. It may seem harmless to you, but to her it is you telling her that she is not enough. So it may be a “stupid little thing”, but often enough of those turn into a big thing that can drive a wedge through a marriage.
Really I think that is what all addicitons start as. Stupid little things that are no big deal and you can easily control it – until you suddenly realize you can’t. You say you can handle it because you quit before, but here you are again saying it is causing some stress in your family again. “I can quit anytime I want to, I just don’t want to” is a pretty famous addict line, isn’t it? It’s just a bit of a dangerous game because you don’t really know if you will become an addict until it is too late or it causes some serious damage (that goes for Porn and drugs).
The part I have a hard time with is how things like sex crimes (especially on children), starvation, torture and other unspeakable things can be part of the plan. I understand having to deal with a job loss can be character building, but how can being born into the family of an abusive monster be part of growth?
