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Ironic that the topic of our SM last week was this (horrid) talk and now I see it is a very active topic of my new favorite forum :crazy: Anyway, the president of our church is just a man who holds the priesthood who received a calling. He’s as much a man and human as any other man who has ever lived and I don’t see why he wouldn’t have the same limitations any of us do. The prophet is no different than a bishop, other than he has a bigger ward to pray for. We all know that bishops are well meaning but often way off base due to the frailties of the human mind, so it only makes sense that can happen at the Stake, Region and even entire church level. People run the church – People. I refuse to believe that Pres. Monson got a new brain when he became prophet, so therefore he has the same mental capacity he had immediately prior.
Often the LDS church talks of this concept of God as our literal father and us as his children. I have a few kids, but I can guarantee you that I am not a perfect father. The ways I am better than my children are generally just in ways that come from experience and patience learned through living. I think the same goes for all fathers. So if we buy the God is our literal father, then he is God and exalted above us just because he has been around the block. Now that sounds blasphemous to me to re-read as we are taught that god is perfect and omnipotent, but was it always that way?
Just another thought from my overactive mind, let’s say you make it to the upper echelon of the Celestial kingdom that many of us were taught about. You become a literal god and you decide to make a planet and plan of salvation for your heavenly offspring. How do you know what to do? It’s obvious even our God wasn’t sure if we consider the 2 opposing plans and resulting war in heaven.
I always try to remember that EQ (just like every other class) is taught by a random ward member called to teach on an assigned topic. I was that guy at my last ward and I can tell you that I was rarely an expert or authority on the topic at hand. Half the time I wasn’t even sure if I fully believed what I was teaching! Generally my biggest concern was for enough bullet points from the topic that I could spark enough quorum discussion to fill 40 minutes so I wouldn’t look dumb or unprepared. So I wouldn’t worry too much about what was covered and not covered and instead gather what you can and fill in the gaps at home with your own study. That’s what I hoped people would do when I taught. And If I look at the article to which I think you are referring to, he does mention getting help from others: Quote:“Priesthood leaders can help as those with addictions seek counsel from them. Where necessary, they can refer them to qualified licensed counselors and LDS Family Services. The addiction recovery program, adapted from the original 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, is readily available through LDS Family Services.”
Of course one problem with going to the priesthood leaders for help is that if you know you are going to be released from callings, put on probation, maybe asked not to take the sacrament or participate fully in church. What will your kids say when you pass on the bread during sacrament? And so it seems like it is the best interest to just keep it to yourself. Of course if you could handle this problem yourself, you wouldn’t be an addict. Seems like a rough situation for a Mormon.
this thread immediately made me think of a religion I stumbled across about 10 years ago called the Raelien movement. I read their main literature and was shocked to find it reads pretty much like the Joseph Smith first vision story only instead of God paying him a visit it was aliens. Of course they are big on free love and wife swapping, though, so it’s not for everyone. observant wrote:I think he’s saying the benefit of drinking the wine doesn’t come the alcohol content but from the resveratrol that comes from the color in red wine. You get the same benefits by drinking grape juice, but not white grape.
Nevertheless, unless you drink to get drunk, there is no ill effects to an occasional drink. If you abuse anything there are negative consequences. The difference is that the church only seems to care about teetotaling a couple of key items rather than just living a prudent life of moderation like what the word of wisdom actually seems to suggest. The fact that they completely ignore the “dos” and focus only on the “don’ts” doesn’t make sense.
Orson wrote:I kind of like the line of thought that God would let you in, but you feeling unworthy would not allow yourself to enter.
But then why would you feel unworthy? Is it because everyone on Earth told you that you were a sinner? And what would it say about those that felt worthy?
Thanks for the comments everyone, I already feel like part of the group. I’ve been doing a lot of pondering and reading the past few nights and a real strength for me has been the re-realization that the church is not the gospel and the gospel is not the church. The church is supposed to help us find the gospel, but if it fails, that does not mean the gospel is not true. So unfortunately, I feel lately like I am halfway up mount Everest and realizing that my Sherpa may not have done this before. So do I leave him behind and set out on my own, or do we stick together? observant wrote:Wow, I’m not sure I’ve ever thought of that before, that if we could do it on our own we wouldn’t need the church. Very insightful.
If only I believed the GA would allow that to happen.
observant wrote:So I’m setting this on the shelf.
It seems far too many gospel topics end up like this is my head! Shame we won’t have all the answers until we are out of the game.
I agree that there are definitely health advantages to not becoming addicted to tobacco or alcohol. But there are also health benefits to an occasional glass of red wine. Someone who has a drink at dinner once in a while is not going to knock 5 years off their life. Coffee, I don’t think should dictate worthiness, but it is addictive. Caffiene addiction comes in many forms and currently I am trying to quit Mtn. Dew.
Also, excessive consumption of meat has been shown to cause heart disease and colon cancer. So I am not sure it is any better for you than alcohol or tobacco.
The part I struggle with is how so much of “worthiness” is based around the WoW, but only around the beverages and tobacco. Why is it OK to be lax on eating meat sparingly, but one shot of tequila or a double mocha and you are on thin ice with the temple recommend. I mentioned to my wife that when we are traveling and on vacation, what’s the big deal about taking a vacation from the WoW, but I just got the “no you didn’t just say that” look. 
I actually liked father’s and son’s campout as a kid/teen. It was a night to get out and just be a guy. I hear women talk of “girls’ night out” with fondness, so I don’t understand the big deal. Besides if you invite the daughters and make it a father and kid campout, aren’t you excluding the mothers? And then what about people who have no children, can they come? Before long it is just a plain ward campout. As for the main topic, I think we are better than our traditions. We managed to kill polygamy and racism in the priesthood, didn’t we?
