[Butters]

I have always felt that religion is a stepping stone in getting back to heaven. It didn’t matter the religion, it was all for the same ultimate goal. So that response doesn’t surprise me. I would think that if we are earnestly trying to do what is right and doing good to those around us then it is all good!

[Butters]

I wish you luck with that then. It’s too bad that people think you have to fit the cookie cutter to be a “good” person.

[Butters]

Thanks for the posts here. You guys provide a lot of food for thought as I am stumbling on my way trying to figure things out for myself.

[Butters]

I am really glad you shared what you have done and how it is coming along! What you are doing for that girl is going to really have a long term effect on her in a positive way. I think it is completely awesome!

SD, I am just bursting with happiness over this because I have seen what that kind of thing can do for youth. You are doing a great thing for her.

[Butters]

Good for you, cwald! :clap: It sounds like it went pretty well.

Was there any kind of relief finally having it in the open?

[Butters]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

and that all the others will be naked! is what I heard.

I hope that’s a joke, but I fear it isn’t. 🙄

No worries, Ray. By then we will only have godly type thoughts so seeing them all naked won’t bother us in the least. 🙂

In fact, we will probably wonder why the rest of us are clothed!

[Butters]

I do want to do this calling. I really wish that I could be the “Ma” out there on the trail. I talked with my husband and he is pretty against me doing the walking so I think that I will just be the “base camp” person. But at least I get to go.

Thanks Brian. You are right. The youth do need to know that not all testimonies are the standard that you hear in testimony meeting.

It will be fun and I am really looking forward to it. 🙂

[Butters]

Orson wrote:

Specifically? I’m sorry, no, I just can’t see it. A specifically designed test implemented for our personal response would in most cases deny someone’s agency somewhere along the way to act differently. Even an illness, the divine requirement of a body to harbor an ailment is just not consistent with my idea of what agency is.

I think that Orson stated it very well. I think that a lot of trials come from choices that we make so that would make the trial more of a consequence.

I have had an ailment since I was 12 years old (just over 20 years 😮 ). When I was a kid and wasn’t able to run and jump and do all the other things that kids my age were doing I was pretty upset about it. My father gave me a blessing and in it he told me something along the lines of having this trial in my life so that I would learn empathy and learn from these experiences. And that it was also so I wouldn’t forget who was in charge and that I would to be humble and pray to the Lord during these times.

I dealt with this for a long time and I did my best at staying positive through it and I think I did really well because people would always ask me how I stayed happy during all of this.

The reason that I bring this up is because for 20 years I wondered what I wasn’t learning that the Lord thought I needed to learn. I have had numerous surgeries and was/am a guinea pig for the docs. I did this always thinking about what I could learn, who I could help through their trials. I wasn’t angry with it because I had so much faith that once I learned what the Lord was trying to teach me that I would be healed.

Then my faith/world crashed down on me and I figured out that priesthood blessing don’t work, IMHO. They are more for comfort. And then I realized that I am just the medical anomaly and although I have learned some very valuable things I no longer think that God is responsible or holding the reigns on this anymore. This is just me being the genetic make up that I am. This was actually a relief to me and a great sorrow. A sorrow because this is something that I have to deal with for the rest of my life with a slim chance of curing. A relief because I am not always wondering what it is that I have done that the Lord feels I need to learn more or that I am not being humble enough so he caused my knees to swell.

[Butters]

cwald wrote:

Oh by the way Buttars, you mentioned that you use a user name of buttarscotch on other blogs. Maybe you know this and I missed it, but the Buttars on South Park is actually named, Buttars Scotch. 🙂

I had no idea! See what you guys teach me?

[Butters]

First I need to make a confession.

I have only ever seen 2 full episodes of Southpark and neither had Butters in it. I didn’t know he existed until after I googled Butters and his image popped up. I liked the description of him so I chose him for my avatar. I chose the name Butters because I was similar to my name “Butterscotch” I used on another forum but didn’t want to be associated to in this one if someone happened into it.

I do enjoy Southpark (all 2 episodes I have seen), but since I don’t really watch TV and we have never had cable, I will most likely never watch more of it. I am sorry if this dishonors my avatar in any way.

Now for the real thread.

I completely believe that my heaven is different from any other mormon. I don’t want to have babies in heaven 😮 . My version of heaven (whenever I thought about it) was me over a microscope learning all kinds of new things. With giant books around me that told me the answers to some of earths history.

Honestly, my version of Hell IS the mormon version of heaven. The only thing that I would say is similar is the family being together for eternity. I would love it if I could live on the same heavenly street as my siblings.

[Butters]

I am hoping that this summer we can do a number of camping trips that will “happen” to fall on Sundays.

[Butters]

cwald wrote:

That is why I reject the LDS churches standard and definition of sin. And if we want to argue culture vs doctrine so be it, but please, I really don’t need someone here trying to tell me that our people DO NOT believe that drinking a beer or skipping their church meetings to watch football on sunday or m-ing (won’t spell it out for Sam’s benefit) etc etc is NOT a sin. The prophet has told us what to do, and if we don’t follow that advice, in the LDS culture, that is a sin. And it is so much sin, in the case of m-ing and drinking a glass of wine, that it will keep one from being with their family forever and out of the CK, as well as disqualify one for leadership positions in the church. That must be pretty darn serious in God’s eye to tell folks they will not be saved in the CK.

I reject that notion 100%.

Oh course, many of us here believe that tithing and WofW and such are nothing more than man-made commandments that the church uses to control members behavior, and use as a gauge to see who will be obedient to authority. Are we wrong or do the leaders really believe we are offending god and our fellow man when we drink a cup of coffee or tea. And if the church leaders SERIOUSLY don’t believe they are sins in God’s eye, yet continue to impose and enforce them on the membership in regards to TR/salvation, than they are committing ONE HELL OF SIN. See Doug’s signature line.

:clap: That was very well stated. :clap:

[Butters]

It is a Utah thing since I never did it when I was a youth. So let me explain briefly.

They take a your youth and divide them into “families” and for 3 days or so they get to pull a hand cart while wearing all of the typical Pioneer attire. They get to “experience” what it was like for pioneers back in the day. There is a place up in Wyoming (Martin’s Cove) that gives them the trail that the pioneers actually traveled. It is pretty costly to do that so we are going to end up just finding some other place for them to pull hand carts around.

[Butters]

I always thought that doing the opposite of the 10 commandments is what was considered sin. And before my disaffection it was also anything that was contrary to the commandments that we have in our LDS culture (WoW).

That is my “black and white answer”.

But then you have the other things that are not necessarily commandments, but pretty strong suggestions like “treat others the way you would be treated”. That isn’t as easy to gauge the “sinfulness” of.

[Butters]

Ugh, I had some of the same thoughts as I was sitting in sharing time the last 2 weeks.

And then the lady in the presidency gave an object lesson. She had 3 adults in front of the class and she served them brownie sundae’s. One of them was barely eating any of it, another was eating normally and the 3rd was gobbling it up ferociously.

Of course the lesson was on how we should be partaking of the scriptures. 🙄

So far the lessons haven’t been too bad, but I can see some of the directions this is going to be taken and I know that I am going to struggle with sitting there quietly. I did keep my mouth shut last week because I know that if I were to have said something I would have been met with :wtf: looks. (The thoughts were along with what CG had said in the original post).

I am with you, CG, I am not sure how to go about teaching my kids differently without coming full out with my issues on things. I am just going to hope that I am lead into discussions with them at the right time that will open some room for thoughts.

[Author]

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