[Cadence]

When I was young I never went to interviews. I do remember when I was baptized I spoke to the bishop and my father was in the room. Then when I went on a mission there was some arm twisting to get me to go. But in general I never spoke to a bishop about worthiness.

My children on the other hand experienced the regular shaming session.

I can say now I was never hurt by lack of interviews but my children were harmed by them.

I wish I would have had sense to tell the bishop hands off my kids, tell them to come to me if they tell you they have issues.

It gripes me now how the church sets up a system where the bishops declarations on worthiness trump a parents.

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[Cadence]

The obvious answer is the church is not as true or important as we are told.

It would be hypocrisy on the part of god to make it so important, yet it’s reach and desire to join be an obstacle to that.

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[Cadence]

Can’t remember where I read it but I like the quote. It’s not service when they can afford to pay. It’s just free labor.

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[Cadence]

In reality there are only two items in the WofW that we care about. No tobacco and no alcohol. Even then it says beer and wine are ok to some degree. Coffee and tea get thrown in for some reason and the are not even mentioned.

We talk about it being a commandment and all but we don’t remotely live it as it is worded. Instead we live some kind of culturally created commandment

It is interesting how just some slivers of it became engrained in the church and the rest is politely ignored. Drink a beer and you are apostate. Eat fruit out of season no problem.

I think like many things it is in for an overhaul in the near future. The leaders recognize it is out of place in our world and does not fit the mindset of the masses.

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[Cadence]

The reason questions are uncomfortable is because there are no answers.

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[Cadence]

It may not be so much a function of what the church teaches men to be but what type of man gravitates to the church.

Of course there are always outliers, but as a whole I will stand by my experience that the real TBM men exhibit a more passive personality. It’s not a criticism just an observation.

Weak men don’t like to be told they are weak, and strong men don’t like to be told they are weak. Must be a man thing.

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[Cadence]

Minyan Man wrote:

Do we really need more time in “social media”?

Maybe it shows my age, I avoid programs like this. It is not aimed at my generation. Facebook, etc.

If you have something to tell me, say it to my face or not at all.

Does anyone see anything positive?

signed, Cranky old man.

I am with you. If it is on social media I do not see it.

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[Cadence]

To me it is if you require payment in order to get to heaven. Not to be confused with donating funds to any organization. All organizations need money to exist, but when you tie your eternal soul to that donation then it is priestcraft.

[Cadence]

DarkJedi wrote:

Gerald wrote:

Quote:

I feel that the chruch disdains and estranges a man’s man. Working class men that are rough around the edges are not accepted in Mormon culture.

I hadn’t thought about this but I think I have to agree. I live in a ward (and have lived in wards) with a number of men “rough around the edges.” Their discomfort in Sunday School and Priesthood meetings is often palpable. I can see why some men may have a hard time connecting with the Church when leaders tend towards the “warm-nurturing” end of the spectrum. Our bishopric is composed of two men who definitely fit that Mormon stereotype and one who is “rough around the edges.” It’s actually refreshing to have someone conduct meetings who is a bit out of the “Mormon” mold.

Of course, I think men in general can struggle to connect with one another in any context.

I think this is one of those cases where we need to be careful to distinguish between what “the church teaches” and what people in the church teach. Just saying.

I think the church leaders absolutely teach that men need to be exactly what men tend to be in the church. Watch any conference talk and that is what most men tend to copy. Goofy humor, soft spoken, emotional. I do not even think those things are bad. They are good qualities for some men. My problem is in the church we tend to elevate those qualities above say the opposite. Tough, resilient someone with a hard edge is more belittled.

Probably why I never fit in well. Not emotional at all. Distain hand wringing exercises about how we just could not exist without our wives. More of a mans man who loves women and think they are just great.

I sometimes wonder what those early pioneer men and even women would think about todays man in the church? Being emotional and touch feely did not get your wagon out of the mud.

[Cadence]

I use to have some 5 gallon buckets of wheat. Sort of silly what was I gong to do with it? We all live in a totally interdependent economy. If some kind collapse happens then we are all in the same boat. So if everything goes to hell there will be no one to turn the lights on and you can’t cook your bread.

I do strongly believe in having enough on hand to last 30 days or so in the event of some sort of natural disaster. But if the lights are not back on by then it would be Chaos after that.

[Cadence]

Faith is a tough concept for me. Maybe due to my own fault it has caused me great pain. It has led me to believe in things that turned out to be false. After exerting all the faith I could muster I started walking down a path I felt I was inspired to follow and it led to terrible consequences. It has happened a couple of times. Then by the third time I had had enough. I could no longer rectify in my mind what was going on.

That was 10 years ago and since I have lived by my own wisdom. Not saying I am any happier or better off per se, but I no longer have the conflict in my mind. It can be a challenge at times to wake up and realize if the day is going to work it is up to me, but that is the reality I live in. It has made me a much stronger individual and more self reliant.

I think faith tends to be a crutch to to many to help them make decisions they struggle with. In my observations if something is true it becomes self evident to me. I generally do not need to pray about it. If something relies on constant prayer and invoking “faith” I tend to shun those things. I do not believe truth is hidden like that. I do not like to have to exert faith to believe in something. I like things to be self evident and supported by facts. Faith in the unseen to me becomes opinion. Like politics everyone stands on their corner convinced they are correct, and unable to conceive why others are on another corner.

Leaders of the church have had to invoke faith to get members too response to their wishes. In many use they have been on the right path and it is beneficial to follow them. Others times as we know they have misled the members. So they are human like you and me. I do not need faith to understand that.

I have been accused by some of living in darkness and not subject to the light of Christ, because I will not believe on faith anymore. Perhaps it is true since I acknowledge I can be wrong about things, perhaps many things, but it is I who is wrong, not a feeling or emotion.

I do have faith in one thing. That is the universe will work itself out one way or another and I am along for the ride.

[Cadence]

I don’t go to the temple anymore. Sort of a protest thing. But I can not imagine it is any worse than the live sessions. I went to the live sessions in the Manti temple many times. That was somewhat tedious. I enjoyed the films much better.

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[Cadence]

BJE that is a nice interpretation. I find it interesting the Mormon mind tends to jump to sex as the most heinous thing as opposed to something more destructive.

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[Cadence]

I think all religions cherry pick the verses they want. In reality maybe 1% of the Bible gets used. The rest is just noise

I have often thought it would be interesting to pick a page at random and read it in Sunday School. Then try to explain everything it says.

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[Cadence]

Long time ago I was in charge of the Stake Farm. It was my job to round up volunteers to go pull weeds or pick tomatoes or such. I hated begging people to go and ended up filling many of the assignments myself. Then I had a brainstorm. We could just ask members for 10 bucks so we could hire some temps to do the work. I figured almost any member would pay 10 bucks not to have to go to the stake farm. I floated the idea around. Well you can imagine the response I got. I was missing the point it was all about service bla bla bla.

Still think it was a good idea, I would pay 10 bucks not to clean the chapel

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