Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I totally get what DA is talking about. Let me give you a real example from my own life. Over a year ago I was diagnosed with a form of Rheumatoid Arthritis. It was painful and debilitating and after much anguish I decided to ask to be released from every calling I had (except VT). I felt that I needed a long break from the responsibilities etc. My husband approached our bishop and explained the situation. My bishop didn’t want to release me. He offered me a 2 month leave of absence type situation. My husband was respectful but assertive and let him know that I needed the burden lifted completely for a longtime perhaps even a year. He released me.
Fast forward 6 months. The bishop calls my husband to see if I’m ready for a calling yet. After some thought we both agreed that I wasn’t ready. My bishop respected that.
Fast forward 1 year. My bishop sees us in the hall and asks to speak to us in private. He said that they had a little job for me and and wondered if I felt ready. (I kind of knew this was coming because the primary pianist let me know that she needed a go to girl on the Sundays that she worked and that the Primary Presidency was considering asking me. I had thought about it and since I was managing my illness well and felt comfortable with the half-time job, I had decided that I would accept the calling if asked.) I told my bishop that I was ready but that I needed to be a part of the decision on what type of calling I would accept. He immediately agreed to the arrangement but then quickly caught himself and said, “But that’s not how we do things around here.” I said, “that is how I must do things now.” He was pleasant and issued the call of part-time primary pianist.
So when Devilsadvocate, advocates being more assertive I understand what he is saying. He’s not talking about fighting for a change in the Word of Wisdom. I believe he is talking about respectfully setting healthy boundaries in regards to our activity within the church.
Am I getting what you are saying DA?
I
Flowerdrop, You said, “But I have realized that I DO have a problem with authority”
Ahhh yes authority. This is a problem for me too. Is it a problem? Sometimes I wonder about that.
I love your creative answer to VT. I wonder if I could create a way to VT that would feel comfortable.
Maybe I’ll pray about that one. (I’m actually beginning to feel like I might like to pray again which is a big step for me!!)
The whole lack of desire for prayer stems from my problem with authority too. I was tired of being told I needed to pray day and night and they needed to be meaningful prayers etc. So I have rebelled against that authority for over a year now. Now, I will be praying on my own terms.
Kyle, I think it was brave of you to post this on Facebook. I’m no where near ready to share my faith crisis with anyone other than a few VERY close friends and my husband. So much changes over time and I just want to allow those changes to occur without others labelling me anything.
I also think that your journey within the LDS church will be difficult. Can you really be who you are within the church? Is the church a healthy place for you? I don’t know the answers, but it seems like a huge undertaking. You have a testimony and that is so beautiful. Now, how to make that testimony fit within the organization/institution that is filled with people who don’t understand where you are coming from. Perhaps you could see yourself as a pioneer, blazing the trail for other Gay mormons.
My heart goes out to you.
Welcome Kyle, I am very interested in your point of view. I understand the burden of all or nothing. I feel the same and I’m a “born in the covenant” girl. Sometimes I feel like “why bother” I’ll never make it anyway and then I realize that I’m missing the point. I go along fine for awhile and then I burn out again. I do continue going to church because I have 4 kids that I’m trying to raise and I want to be a good example to them, but sometimes I just want to quit. I don’t have any advice for you. I just wanted you to feel welcome here!!! I hope you feel comfortable sharing your thoughts and opinions.
Cadence, I was very happy to find that the LDS definition of apostasy as found in the Church handbook applies only if you belong to a group that is actively fighting the church or if you join another church. The handbook says that you can even attend other churches or be completely inactive and not be called an apostate.
It seems to me that if you are teaching HP you are probably not an apostate;) And I don’t think that asking questions counts as fighting the church.
Lost Soul said, “I guess this is just a hundredth part of the continual conversations going on in my head right now.” Wow, can I relate. I’m feeling the same way about the gospel at this point. In the last 9 months I’ve gone from only wanting to focus on Christ and his atonement to doubting the literalness of the record of the gospel. How do we trust the men who wrote the record? I have felt divine love in my life but at this point I’m not sure where or who it came from and that is really rocking my world. We are told not to trust in the arm of flesh so we really can’t trust the scriptures because they were all written down by men, and yet it is a scripture that advises me to NOT trust in the arm of flesh. So much paradox. So, yes, I get what you are saying about the “continual conversations” in your mind. I sometimes feel a little insanity coming on because of them. This is a tough stage to be in.
Peace to you!!!
Cnsl1, I like your answer. I think that one of the lessons we can learn from the Adam and Eve story is that often in life we are thinking about a problem in a very black and white kind of way and really we need to consider the bigger picture. Some have thought that Eve glimpsed a bit of the big picture and that is why she partook of the fruit. Adam on the other hand saw the matter as a this or that question. Most problems in life have a spectrum of answers and if we try to see the big picture we can get a better understanding of the action we should take.
That’s a stab at it anyway.
Roadlesstravelled,
I feel for you. I had to quit teaching RS because of my cognitive dissonance, but through this site and others I’m beginning to see how I can work on a different level and perhaps even find deeper meaning and dare I say “truth” in the stories and counsel in our scriptures. But it is oh so time consuming isn’t it.
Up here in Canada, Same-sex marriage has been legal through out the nation for quite a few years. Here is a little blurb about it: “On July 20, 2005, Canada became the fourth country in the world and the first country in the Americas to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide with the enactment of the Civil Marriage Act. Court decisions, starting in 2003, each already legalized same-sex marriage in eight out of ten provinces and one of three territories, whose residents comprised about 90% of Canada’s population. Before passage of the Act, more than 3,000 same-sex couples had already married in these areas.[1] Most legal benefits commonly associated with marriage had been extended to cohabiting same-sex couples since 1999.” (Wikipedia)
I’ve been very interested in what has been going on in California because I have very mixed feelings when it comes to this issue. Having been raised in a small mostly LDS community I hadn’t had much experience with gays or lesbians. Of course there were rumors and quiet conversations but it didn’t hit home to me until one of my husband’s good friends who was a faithful LDS with a strong testimony, served an honorable mission as assistant to the president etc, came out and I began to research the topic. It didn’t make sense to me that this man would choose to be gay when doing so would estrange him from his family and community. About the same time we learned that 2 of my husbands first cousins were gay and I had a chance to ask them questions. I also believe strongly that equal rights are very important. My biggest concern with Prop 8 was that churches would be forced to marry gays/lesbians when it was against their beliefs to do so. From the message Elder Bednar gave concerning this, that was the church’s concern as well.
Now, having had this law in place for 5 years in Canada I can tell you that I have never heard of any church being forced to marry a couple against their beliefs. I’m sure that would have been big news, but that doesn’t mean I couldn’t have missed it. I don’t know of any schools that are forcing children to learn about alternative lifestyles etc. And all the hype and propaganda of “what this will do to the family” etc seems unwarranted. How can two people loving each other enough to make a committment hurt the institution of marriage or family. I’m sure many will disagree with me but only time will tell I suppose.
I don’t see it being against mormon doctrine, but I do see it being very tough for the majority of members to wrap their minds around the idea. I wish it would happen soon, but it will take a lot of study, communication and probably more scientific understanding before that change will happen. I do wonder what the church will do now that the ban has been lifted until the courts make a final decision. Do members in California have the energy to continue the fight? I’d be interested in knowing what is happening in the LDS community now.
Welcome! I think that at 23 I would have reacted exactly as you did. I’m not sure what I would have done if my situation was reversed and my husband was having the faith crisis. Not that he isn’t it many ways (questioning the culture mostly) but he has experienced the power of the priesthood in such a powerful way that he can not deny that. I am riding on his coat tails about that. I on the other hand have experienced God’s love in such a way that I can’t deny that aspect of my faith. I guess we are a good combination.
How is your family handling your husband’s refusal to have your child baptised? Are you able to set some boundaries around their opinions and worries?
I feel sad at the advice you were given to leave your husband. I happy that you were able to see beyond that advice. How grateful I am to have a husband who will walk this journey with me. I’m sure your husband is grateful for your loyalty as well. I wish more of the leadership had an understanding of the development of faith and could help or at least know to stay out of a members faith crisis.
I’m so glad you decided to share your story. You sound very wise in your approach. I would question though your thought to keep your questions from your husband. You know your husband best of course, but I wonder if you two could negotiate an even better path together. I don’t have a lot of experience so the moderators of this forum may disagree but in my situation I have felt more peace because my husband knows how I’m feeling and is better able to support me.
I hope for you peace and love in your family.
Am I wrong in understanding that a woman is never on the short list for seeing the handbook? This bothers me some if it is true. I read through a bit of the 2006 handbook last night and do see what Ray is saying about some of it being open to interpretation and spiritual guidance. I was concerned about the specific advice regarding garments. They specifically said not to remove them to do yard work or to stay in your swimsuit in the home. I don’t do either of those things often but I do like to stay in my swimsuit and a cover up awhile after swimming especially on a hot day (I live in Canada so those hot days are few and far between) and I didn’t realize this was against the rules. I just felt controlled in some way after reading that paragraph. I agree that I might actually start using that handbook to prove my point or correct leadership and with this latest reading I actually feel like I should keep myself in the dark about this. I really felt aggrevated after the reading I did. Sigh.
Ray, What a great way of describing Buffet Mormon. So I think what you are saying is that every member of the church is a buffet mormon, some are just more concious of it than others. And I’m so happy to hear you talk about our individual constitutions. I think the comparing we do in the church can be so devastating, especially amongst us women.
Welcome!! I hope you find some answers to your questions here. I’m sorry you have felt so hurt by members around you. What a struggle this life is at times.
My best to you.
Welcome!! What an interesting circumstance you are in. Like you’ve said, you are in such a great position to make a difference in the church with your new way of seeing things. I realize that not everyone who experiences a crisis of faith can stay in the church but I do feel that if more people would stay this church would evolve into something spectacular and be able to influence more people for good.
In my little mostly mormon town I have seen many Bishops quietly drop into the background after their time is up. I’ve always wondered why. Bishop burnout is a big factor I think but maybe their eyes see and hear things that change their once orthodox thinking and that changes the way they worship.
My hope for you is that you will find peace in your new worldview and that your desire to have the pure love of Christ for others will come to pass.
The Dalai Lama said, “My religion is simple. My religion is kindness”. I love that. If we all worked on that, what a world we would have.
Can’t wait to hear more from you.
