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I agree with Mike. Let them do it. Be patient. Remember it took you some time to come to grips with your situation and decide how to redirect your life. Looking back you’ve probably already found some things you would do differently. This is new to them too. Allow them the same time and space and realize in the end they too will look back and find things they would do differently. Sounds like they love and support you. That is what really matters. All the rest will work itself out. Tried to make the quote function work but couldn’t. Sorry. Regarding your earlier comments, if you do decide leaving the church is best for you, that certainly doesn’t mean you have to leave any of its teachings you find true and beneficial. Also regarding your arm twisting statement , while that should never happen it certainly could. I’ve never had a disciplinary council against me but I’ve been threatened with more than my share. Many times when my arm was being twisted, after several volleys of me answering honestly and them still twisting to get what they want to hear, I’ve finally said something like, “I’ve given you the honest answer several times and I feel like you are more interested in what you want to hear than in my honest answer, so if that’s what you are looking for here is what I think you want to hear but realize its not an honest answer and not how I feel.” Then I proceeded to give them what I thought they wanted to hear. It can come across as condescending but has worked for me. Stopped the arm twisting every time. Add me to the list of those thinking about and praying for you.
I’ve never been sure how we can claim to not have a paid ministry. Our local leaders are not paid, but our upper level leaders are. Call it a stipend, living expense re-imbursement, whatever you want, the fact remains they do not hold other jobs and the church provides their monetary needs. Stipend or salary, seems the same to me. If it’s OK on the GA level I don’t see how it could be wrong on the local level, and vice versa…if its wrong on the local level it must be wrong on the upper levels. Brown wrote:Can I just add how ridiculous it is that we are commanded not to “defile” our garments, when they are to be continually in direct contact with areas of our body that often emit foul substances? Underwear was designed as a barrier to protect our actual clothes and keep them nice from body fluids and waste and now we put these holy garments there instead? I sit there with the garments in my pits and crack all day, and then it is a sin to drop them on the floor?
:crazy: I have to comment on this one. I mean no disrespect to the garment, but they are supposed to be tough enough to protect us from all kinds of evil, danger, and harm, but they are not tough enough to handle being on the floor????? Doesnt make sense to me. Does Satan have control over floors like he does over water.
Cadence wrote:Dress codes are not so much about Godly things as much as making others comfortable to be around us. If someone shows up at church with a long beard, tattoos, and jeans everyone becomes uncomfortable. They may not say anything, and try to be polite but still members become very uncomfortable around such individuals. Getting everyone to conform makes it more comfortable for the leaders not to have to deal with the diversity.
This is one of the things I find very odd. I hang in a lot of circles that are not in any way considered alternative cultures. I am a man. I have long hair. I have a beard. I am a Doctor. I am a city councilor and Mayor pro-tem in my city. I didnt even run for office last term and was elected on write in votes.
The only place I go where people are clearly uncomfortable with me is “The lords only true church where people love and respect everyone”. I have trouble understanding this.
Cadence wrote:Dress codes are not so much about Godly things as much as making others comfortable to be around us. If someone shows up at church with a long beard, tattoos, and jeans everyone becomes uncomfortable. They may not say anything, and try to be polite but still members become very uncomfortable around such individuals. Getting everyone to conform makes it more comfortable for the leaders not to have to deal with the diversity.
This is one of the things I find very odd. I hang in a lot of circles that are not in any way considered alternative cultures. I am a man. I have long hair. I have a beard. I am a Doctor. I am a city councilor and Mayor pro-tem in my city. I didnt even run for office last term and was elected on write in votes.
The only place I go where people are clearly uncomfortable with me is “The lords only true church where people love and respect everyone”. I have trouble understanding this.
I’ve always loved this one. Don’t know if this is common or not but in my area most of the major drug dealers, if you put a suit on them would look much more like mormon missionaries than like 1960’s hippies. Our newspaper routinely prints photos of wanted criminals. I have kept a tally, and about 30% of these people have long hair, the other 70% again, would look like mormon missionaries if they had a suit on. If Dallin Oaks really believed what he said here the church should have rules against short hair in my area at least. Also, check the Feb 1993 Ensign article, “I have a question”, the question being “Is there a grooming and dress standard for the temple?”
Some quotes in the answer to that question are,
Quote:Church leaders, recognizing that fashions go in cycles, are sensitive to the rich cultural diversity within the Church. For example, they have recently held that clean, neatly trimmed and managed beards and long hair for men—as well as certain other fashions that to some might seem “trendy”—are acceptable for the temple, provided they are not inherently offensive or vulgar
and
Quote:
Our sincere desire to respect the sanctity of the temple will lead us to appear acceptable before the Lord—both in our grooming and in our attitudes toward others whose tastes may differ from ours.So, in my case, If I am evil for being a man with long hair I would sure rather explain that to the Lord than have to be in the position of those who complain about my hair having to explain to the Lord why I am not respecting the sanctity of the temple with my attitude toward people whose taste differed from mine!!
Keep posting the best comments here so we can all get a good laugh, or cry, whichever the case may be. I can’t get my post onto that website. It keeps disappearing while I type. I’ll try tomorrow from a real computer but I’ll put it here in case anyone can transfer it over. I was referred here through staylds.com. I left the church at the suggestion of my bishop. I once believed as strongly as I could possibly believe. My faith was destroyed a little each time I got stuck in the middle of a pissing match between two authorities, usually a Bishop and Stake president. What do you do when both claim to be receiving inspiration for you, but they each direct you in opposite ways, both assuring you the other is wrong? A bishop threatens you with church disciplinary action if you do this, the Stake President warns you that if you don’t do the very thing the bishop threatened disciplinary action if you do you will have to answer to the Lord. Neither want to sign your temple recommend if you follow the others advice. This happened multiple times. I finally left when the Stake President told me never to allow a Priesthood leader to talk me into doing something, then my bishop suggested I find another place to worship if I wasn’t willing to do the very thing the Stake President asked me not to do. I finally wrote Salt Lake asking what to do and never got a response. I guess from the church I need solid direction, not threats that I have destroyed my familys exaltation if I can’t both do and not do something at the same time.
I have not spent time on this website, but while staylds.com and John has not brought me back to the church, (not sure how appropriate it would be to come back when your Bishop has suggested you leave) it has kept me from becoming antagonistic towards it and has maintained a strong desire in me to find resolution to these huge inconsistencies in the church and to find a way back.
Dan Fiske
Cave Junction OR
Quote:Please know you are not alone in your thoughts and struggles. It has been refreshing to discover other Saints who refuse to lose their own identities in order to fit the “model.”
Count me in this group! My bishop told me I should find another place to worship if I wasnt willing to cut my hair and do everything else he told me
🙄
