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As hard as I’m trying not to be, I’m probably pretty cynical right now, but based on our behaviour our values seem to be based on appearance more than what we really are as children of God or anything that might help us develop faith in him or draw closer to him. In a nutshell, it seems we concentrate more on ensuring others think we are what we preach than about actually becoming what we preach we should become. Well, they sell it at the Lion House. If you can drink it in BY’s home it’s probably OK in a church building. 
The last CHI specifically states white shirts are preferred, but NOT required for passing the sacrament. Quote:=”OrsonWow, tough situation. I can only imagine working in Salt Lake and opening such a letter, honestly I would have to wonder if it was legit. I would think a serious call for help would contain a real name of an actual member somewhere. I realize the sensitivity, but if the issue is mostly leaders that disagree and not of your own doing why the shyness? Also, if I found myself in that situation I would plant myself in the SP’s office until he got the bishop in line. It is within his power afterall.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I thought of that too and won’t be surprised or let it negatively affect me if I get no response at all. My thought when writing it was if I were on the receiving end of that letter I would wonder how any response would be misquoted, taken out of context and dragged through the media if it were planted by an anti. I wondered how I would answer it myself if I were on the receiving end. I suppose they could send an email stating they are concerned and to please call so and so at whatever number.
The reality is, it’s not shyness. Normally I would identify myself and go through the SP first, but right now I’m just not really prepared to weather another pissing match between two priesthood leaders. If I don’t get a response when I am more prepared I will go through the SP first, then resend the letter identifying myself if it doesn’t resolve. Also, I actually took a middle of the road approach. Since my email contains my first initial and last name I was going to set up a new unidentifiable one. I decided against it, as if they really wanted to look into it they could find me. I live in a small town. All they would have to do is look up my internet service provider named at the end of my email address, and they would find it served an area that only contained one ward with the next neighboring wards being 30 miles away in one direction and 60 in the other. I realize that is more trouble than they should have to go to, but if they were real serious about an answer and really wanted to contact me…well, lets just say I stopped writing here for a minute, using only my email address, went to the internet, typed in my service provider, went to lds.org, found the ward that serves the town that provider is in, went to the ward list in that ward and found myself, all in under 60 seconds.
An interesting addendum…Yeah, I did let it affect me and haven’t been going. I just had a 19 year old, who now lives in another town, but who grew up in our ward, spent a lot of time in my home, and who I love as I do my own kids, invite me to come out and attend church with him. He knew very little of what was going on when he asked.
stealthbishop wrote:Part of sustaining him is to help someone when they are really off track. This bishop needs some major help. You need to do what is best for you but I believe his SP needs to know about this and if the SP doesn’t support you, I think you should write a letter to the First Presidency.
OK, I like this POV and I may just do that, but not right now. I’ve been in the middle of a few pissing matches recently where the SP tells me one thing and the Bishop tells me the opposite, both insisting it came from the Lord. Funny thing is, deep down I know which is correct, but convince myself otherwise sometimes. I’m just not ready to be in the middle of another pissing match between my priesthood leaders, as part of what I was told was in direct conflict with what the SP has previously told me. I realize it will most likely go nowhere, but I just wrote a letter and sent it to Salt Lake. I did not identify myself except with an email address, and in very generic terms asked what my church would advise me to do when two priesthood leaders give me opposite advice, both claim it came from the Lord and it will have serious negative impact on my eternity if I do not follow theirs. I can’t both do and not do the same thing! If I get a response, which I doubt, I will give it to the bishop. If I do not, when I am better prepared to be in the middle again, I will contact the SP
Heber13 wrote:Have you had any followup discussions with the bishop on your feelings?
I think many times things can be said in the moment (bishops try their hardest, bless their pea-pickin hearts!), and if you validate with him what you heard is what he really believes, that might help sift out the things you heard wrong, from the things he said wrong and wants to reword it or apologize for, and things that just need more clarification to be understood better.
I haven’t had any follow up. I realize the way he said some things may have been harsher than he intended, but for the most part, except for the part about finding another place to worship it is all things he has said to me before in various different ways, so I know it is really how he feels.
falcosp wrote:and I take constant flak for my own son’s long hair since it is not to church standards–and he is only 4yo! The pressure to conform is huge, and I don’t want my children to suffer because of it! Or me either!
If you are like me, the hair thing is nothing to you and everything to other members, but everything that eliminates stress received from other members helps. The bottom line is, there is not a church standard against long hair. I carried copies of an ensign article I started handing to everyone that gave me crap about my hair. I tried to attach it here but it wasn’t allowed. I don’t know if we are allowed to put our email addresses up here so I sill send you a private message with my email address and if you want it send me yours and I will send a word copy of it. Anyone else wanting it is welcome to send me their address and I will send it, or it can be looked up on lds.org. From the Ensign, Feb 1993, 29.30 under “I have a question” , the question being “Is there a dress and grooming standard for temple attendance. I will quote here a few lines from it.
“Church leaders, recognizing that fashions go in cycles, are sensitive to the rich cultural diversity within the Church. For example, they have recently held that clean, neatly trimmed and managed beards and long hair for men—as well as certain other fashions that to some might seem “trendy”—are acceptable for the temple, provided they are not inherently offensive or vulgar.”
and
“. Our sincere desire to respect the sanctity of the temple will lead us to appear acceptable before the Lord—both in our grooming and in our attitudes toward others whose tastes may differ from ours.”
I love that last line. The problem with anyone complaining about anothers long hair is clearly with them, not the person with long hair.
Hope this helps
If you have read my post in “support” under “unofficially excommunicated” you will know where I am. I am questioning everything. I don’t even know if I believe in God. All I know is I hope and pray to a God I don’t even know exists anymore that he does and I will get my testimony back. I stay because I want my testimony back. Fatherof4husbandof1 wrote:How does your wife feel about all this?
f4h1
We have been separated for about 6 months. I don’t think she knows he told me this unless he told her.
SilentDawning wrote:You have me wondering if we have all the details here. It sounds like very unusual behavior from a Bishop
Thanks for your comments. Yes, by necessity this is the short story, but I’m not sure there are any other relevant details left out. The decision for divorce has been years in coming. Years I avoided acting on the answer I was getting. It is real, not just two people falling out of love. No laundry list is needed, but in short, serious things like mom telling kids she is going to kill herself and it will be their fault, praying to God to kill her in front of them, withdrawing and being unable to account for tens of thousands of dollars of family income, sabatoge of my business and therefore my ability to support the kids, etc. The problems in the ward are longstanding. I was previouisly denied a temple recommend unless I quit associating with another ward member the bishop did not want me to associate with, denying that member the Melchezidek Priesthood unless he quit associating with me, etc etc. All these things were taken to the Stake President, then to Salt Lake. The bishops decision was overridden each time. (Different bishops, not the same as now) When I was ordained a High Priest the Stake President called Salt Lake who directed him not to let the Bishop interview me. I was ordained with only a Stake President interview. The problems are real and longstanding, but I can’t say I blame you for wondering. To be honest, there have been several people move in to the ward after having heard various stories, and after being here a while admitting they always thought those telling the stories were exagerating until they moved here and saw it for themselves! Interestingly enough, the Stake President once told me I wasn’t the first to move into the ward to buck what was happening there based on established policy and doctrine, I was just the first to stick it out and not get discouraged and move away after a year or so.
Also, I do know there is no such thing as Unnoficial Excommunication. That was my failed attempt at injecting a little humor into the situation.
😆 Finally, I was pretty shocked when he said it, and am still not quite sure whether he was implying I should go to another ward or another religion, but in light of the fact that he believes I have no testimony and he stated sevearl times he felt I picked and chose what counsel I wanted to follow I’m pretty sure he was referring me to another religion entirely.
Quote:How many professions wear only white shirts and ties? I’m not sure even lawyers and politicians wear a white shirt everyday?
I’ll respond to this one. I am a doctor. I am on the city council and am Mayor Pro Tem in our city, so I guess that qualifies me as a politician. I have been elders quorum president, YM president multiple times. Taught primary, Sunday School, and been in the bishopric. I did concede to the white shirt and tie while in the bishopric, but other than that have never worn a white shirt or tie to church, to work, or to city council meetings. Oh yeah, except for my mission time, my hair has always been longer than shoulder length, and I have a beard and mustache. Believe it or not, none of that has made me a better or worse Doctor, Politician, EQP, Bishopric Counselor, etc. It was and is merely my style preference. I apologize for not getting the quote formatted right. This is only my second post.
I have recently found this website, and very recently found myself in a position to need it, like many others never having imagined myself in this position. I have struggled in temple recommend interviews many times, not because I had trouble answering the questions, but because the interviewer didn’t believe me. I think the most blatant example is when I had a bishop basically telling me I would destroy my exaltation if I did a certain thing, and a stake president telling me I would destroy my exaltation if I did not do that very thing. I chose what to do based on what the spirit told me as I was listening to those two men, both my authorized priesthood leaders, told me. Interesting when you now have to interview with both of them for an interview, and the one whose opinion I did not follow determined I was not worthy because I did not support local leadership in not doing what he wanted (However, the other one would have wanted to deny the recommend on the same principle if I had made the other choice) I too am wondering how to answer next time. One thing that I have thought is to answer yes or no to all the questions. When I am asked in more detail to explain certain actions or answers, what would happen if I simply said that I had answered the official recommend question and we need to move on to the next, then stated that I will be happy to honestly answer further questions after you have determined my worthiness based on the official questions?
