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I doubt there is much that people will find of interest here in my comments but felt compelled to share my pov. I was never conflicted with this aspect of the church, although looking back now maybe this contributed to my increasing disbelief. I always accepted evolution as it was taught in public schools. I did recognize that the theory itself was just that–a theory and not entirely proven but it certainly made sense. I only became aware later that there was a conflict between Mormon theology and evolution, although it should have been obvious. But my understanding of the way some Mormons have reconciled the two is that evolution occurred and that at some point God the Father put the spirit into the evolved body. So Adam and Eve were the first “humans” understood as no longer just animals because they now possessed the spirit. This would explain evolutionary evidence and human development but keep God in the picture. I don’t believe this anymore but my brother does and he is as devout as they come. Curt Quoting hawkgirl “JS was not out broadcasting it, and it wasn’t part of the missionary message at all. Members didn’t know about it. We hear about it pretty regularly, but early church members hadn’t heard of it outside JS’s own family.”
Where I must respectfully disagree here is that JS claims that he, in fact, made known his FV to a Methodist minister directly after it happened and that it was well enough known in his community such that he and his family suffered persecutions because of it. This is in the canonized version, of course. We can write that version off if we want to but that is what he said. So not sure where you are coming from here.
One of the most damaging evidences against the FV is the fact that JS claims in his canonized version that he was attacked for claiming, AT THE TIME, that he had such a vision, and yet there is very little evidence suggesting that anybody actually knew of this at that time, as you say. Even his own mother, in her memoir, I believe,from 1952, did not mention the FV, but only the visit from Moroni, three years after the fact. The church, under BY’s direction, asserted JS’s own account of those events into her memoir but they were not in the original. Interestingly, though, she does mention that when JS was fourteen someone shot at their house.
Just not sure the point here. JS totally canonized a specific version of the FV in the 1838 account. Missionaries to this day teach it as fact.
Curt
I personally feel that no one could have a vision at age 14 and NOT remember that both God and Jesus were present. That 18 years or so later JS told the story this way means that is what he wanted the world to believe. Likely he never imagined the controversy that would emerge around it once historical documents were uncovered. So it stinks to me of a story embellished (though I admit this forum, without all the rancor of other forums, has given me some pause to think that there are plausible ways to look at this). That said, I do agree that the FV controversy might be an example, as one threader mentioned, of the church putting its foot in its mouth, as it were. There should never have been a canonization of this particular version. Whether that could have been sustained, we will never know. But if the church had just said that JS had a vision, he learned that none of the churches was true, that we don’t know exactly what that vision was, then maybe the controversy wouldn’t create so much problems.
However, clearly the FV has become a huge missionary tool and it is hard to image a more wishy washy version having the same impact. After all, we all were captured by the FV story at some point in our lives.
I recognize this is rambling but really appreciate the discussion.
Curt
