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I’m going to bump this to bottom of thread so as to keep discussion on the survey itself. Though i will not apologize or shy away from pointing out the apostasy [emoji6] and hypocrisy of John Gee any time someone provides a link to his work. Obviously, the author of the blog would include my faith in the MTD belief category.
cwald wrote:As a Pantheist, I can relate to number 8. From my associations with self proclaimed spiritual people, it is the biggest factor in leaving religion.
” #8. Self-evident Morality
“They believe . . . religion plays an optional role in morally good living. The single thing in which it specializes–helping people to be good–is actually not needed in order for people to achieve that outcome. Religion thus serves a nonobligatory, noncrucial function in life. It does not have a corner on anything unique. Nobody has to believe in or practice it to live morally. As a result, its status becomes that of a lifestyle accessory. (Smith and Snell, Souls in Transition 83.)”
IShouldn’t churches, especially thr LDS church be training youth to understand these concepts? It reminds me of quote by Ben Franklin, i believe? Something life this. …
Quote:“I want to go to church to become a better man. Not a better Presbyterian. “
Edited: here is the Franklin Quote: “… uninteresting, and unedifying, since not a single moral principle was inculcated or enforced, their aim seeming to be rather to make us Presbyterians than good citizens.”
From Gee…
Quote:” Moralistic Therapeutic Deism is about a few things.
First it “is about inculcating a moralistic approach to life. It teaches that central to living a good and happy life is being a good, moral person. That means being nice, kind, pleasant, respectful, responsible, at work on self-improvement, taking care of one’s health, and doing one’s best to be successful” (Smith and Denton, Soul Searching)
Second it is “about providing therapeutic benefits to its adherents. This is not a religion of repentance from sin, of keeping the Sabbath, of living as a servant of a sovereign divine, of steadfastly saying one’s prayers, . . . etcetera. Rather, what appears to be the actual dominant religion among U.S. teenagers is centrally about felling th and Denton, Soul Searching”
“The restored gospel of Jesus Christ is simply not compatible with Moralistic Therapeutic Deism.”
Gee states later that MTDs are parasites that attach themselves to religion, and are unsustainable by themselves.
I just don’t understand the LDS church anymore?
Wow wow wow. Gee really exposes his motives when summarizing part II Quote:“If we want to help the youth keep their faith, equipping them with the tools to combat Moralistic Therapeutic Deism is one place to start.”
Unbelievable. …but so believable now i know who the author is.
As a Pantheist, I can relate to number 8. From my associations with self proclaimed spiritual people, it is the biggest factor in leaving religion. ” #8. Self-evident Morality
Quote:“They believe . . . religion plays an optional role in morally good living. The single thing in which it specializes–helping people to be good–is actually not needed in order for people to achieve that outcome. Religion thus serves a nonobligatory, noncrucial function in life. It does not have a corner on anything unique. Nobody has to believe in or practice it to live morally. As a result, its status becomes that of a lifestyle accessory. (Smith and Snell, Souls in Transition 83.)”
Thoreau wrote:Sheldon wrote:This article in
Time MagazineNewsweek.
Newsweek. Correct. It is a fantastic article. I took note when they used the term all “cafeteria Christians” in the first couple of paragraphs.This research obliterates the concept of a “historical accurate” AND doctrinal accurate modern day Bible.
Oh wow. I just realized this is written by Gee. I’m really really not surprised about the hubris ooze from the blog now. At least John got the summary correct…
” The narrative that Latter-day Saint youth are leaving the Church in droves because of something they learned from the internet that raises doubts in their minds is not supported by the available data.”
No John, it’s not that simple.
Here is another example of the overt bias of the blog. ” Discernment requires some external criteria for deciding right and wrong. Latter-day Saints can become susceptible to point 7 if they confuse two points of view. The Latter-day Saint point of view is that each individual can know for him- or herself what is right; he or she is then a moral agent who can choose whether or not to do what is right; he or she is then accountable for his or her actions and must accept the consequences for choices made. This should not be confused (although it sometimes is) with the position that each individual can choose for him- or herself what is right and that God will automatically ratify that choice…”
So what is the message?
Agency simply means …The mormon prophet tells you what is right and what is wrong, and you have agency to accept and believe and DO what the mormon prophet says, or you are rejecting GOD.
Did you catch that word play…. the choice “to do what is right….” not the choice to determine what is right.
Oh the hubris.
I think the survey was fine. Valuable. The blog is where the train goes off the rails, and the “just want to sin” apostate belief gets thrown around.
Quote from blog, not survey…
” Other factors weigh more heavily including sin or the desire to sin. Far more detrimental to loss of faith than doubts are notions of relativism, or the uncritical commitment to politically correct notions of diversity, and misunderstandings of moral agency and accountability”
Apologetic blogger must not watch conference? I’m not surprised. So often the mormon people will not listen to their own prophets. … ” One might ask, “If the gospel is so wonderful, why would anyone leave?”
Sometimes we assume it is because they have been offended or lazy or sinful. Actually, it is not that simple. In fact, there is not just one reason that applies to the variety of situations.” – Uchtdorf
wayfarer wrote:cwald wrote:Sure. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as well. I’m just a little bit jaded right now.
-sigh- The best i can do, with the benefit of doubt, is 2.8
Hmmm. I take it you won’t be attending a full-year course on the teachings of the 14 fundamentals and the guy who spoke them?😆
[emoji6]Sure. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as well. I’m just a little bit jaded right now. -sigh- The best i can do, with the benefit of doubt, is 2.8
