[Daeruin]

Roy, I had the same thought about the description of orthodox Mormons.

I think one of the people behind the site is a member of the Facebook group A Thoughtful Faith. She has been open about it, but since it’s a private group I won’t mention her name here.

[Daeruin]

LookingHard wrote:

Best of luck on your decision. If you do accept, I hope in the end it isn’t guilt that prods you to accept.

It’s so hard to separate the guilt from all my other feelings. I can’t just turn it off. Where does my guilt and and my desire to give back to the ward begin? I don’t know.

LookingHard wrote:

One comment. The 11 year old scouts (per the handbook) are only to camp 3 times a year.

That’s good to know. I was told they are simple overnighters, as well. I can probably handle that three times a year.

SilentDawning wrote:

I have a few considerations for you.

1. The person calling you to the position will have invested only a few minutes in inviting you to take the calling. You will then have to do the calling for an indeterminate length of time. And if it gets drudgerous, you will have to go through the guilt of asking for a release — which the leaders may well take forever to execute.

Good point. I have little doubt this calling will be drudgerous at times. I don’t have much desire to be teaching scouting stuff to 11-year-old kids. If I could take my son with me, I think it would be tolerable.

SilentDawning wrote:

2. You want your life to be full of service, and HAPPINESS at the same time. Will this calling accomplish that?

Sometimes I don’t think I’m a great judge of what will make me happy. Sometimes I get something I think I wanted, only to find out that it wasn’t as great as I thought, or I wanted it for the wrong reasons and having it now feels hollow. Sometimes you have to do hard things to reap greater happiness down the road, and it’s hard to know which hard things are going to reap the rewards and which ones are going to end up sapping the life out of you.

SilentDawning wrote:

3. If not, what are some ways you can be happy, and help the Ward meet its needs at the same time? This is where you should be serving — not in a calling that is not a good fit with your six kids.

In some ways, the scouting program is a good fit for me—better than teaching Sunday school, for example—because I don’t have to worry about doctrinal stuff at all. I can teach knots and fire safety with a free conscience. So it has that going for it. As for being happy . . . yeah. I can’t think of a calling I would really enjoy right now. I enjoy being in the nursery, so that’s nice. Otherwise, I have no idea. There are probably callings I would enjoy, but I don’t know what they are.

SilentDawning wrote:

4. The Six Kids factor is a huge one — that must take a horrendous amount of time. I would seriously consider whether you can handle it.

This is definitely a big deal. There is a lot of mental and emotional stress that comes from something as seemingly simple as getting six little kids fed and put in bed. Some people say after the third or fourth kid, it doesn’t get much harder. But everyone’s parenting experience is different. For us, it feels as though it’s gotten exponentially harder with each kid. Our last was unplanned, and at times it feels like the stress is breaking us. Like you’re just trying to keep your head above water and not do any permanent harm to someone. Other times feel like pure joy. The rollercoaster ride itself generates its own kind of stress.

I have several hobbies that I’ve slowly given up over the past few years, because it feels irresponsible to be leaving my wife home alone with the kids all day. My dear, lovely wife always wanted to be a mom and doesn’t want to do anything else. But she struggles a lot. We’re lucky not to have any depression going on. But the chronic stress and lack of sleep get to you. Sometimes you hardly even feel human. I can’t go off having fun with my friends while she struggles with six drunk monkeys and ends up crying because the baby won’t stop fussing, the 7-year-old peed on the couch again, the 2-year old peed on the floor again, the 6- and 10-year-old won’t stop fighting… etc. (Yes, all those things happened tonight.)

Alright, enough complaining. You get the picture. It’s not always as bad as it sounds. But it’s definitely not trivial.

Heber13 wrote:

– A few years ago they called me to this position when my son was 10. What I learned is that while the church program officially brings boys into scouts at 11, BSA says you can join at 10. So…I brought my son along with me. He fulfilled all the requirements to advance in ranks and get merit badges, though he didn’t go to Courts of Honor to get any. While the church program does BSA a little different, there is some gray area because the rest of BSA troops allow 10 year olds.

It was my way of making a compromise that I was willing to serve and give back, but I also treasure being with my kids first and foremost. So as long as they let me spend time with my son, I spent time advancing the other 11 yr olds to 1st Class by the time they were 12. I brought my son with me on the overnighters and he stayed with me in my tent.

I didn’t get any push back from any other parents, or the bishop. They knew I was protective of time with my family, so finding a way to make it work for them and for me was something they understood.

I just looked on the BSA’s webpage, and it says you need to “Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.” So I’d need to get my boy advanced up through his Arrow of Light before he could join the scout troop. I think he’s working on his Bear right now.

Heber13 wrote:

One more word of advice…if you can…don’t take that calling on alone. Try to get another parent or leader in there always with you. It’s hard to do solo, and actually shouldn’t be done. Should always be 2 leaders at every activity.

My understanding is that there’s another troop leader from another ward already working with the boys. They are calling me because we have three wards combined into one troop, and the other ward is frustrated that we don’t have anyone there helping out. (We don’t have any 11-year-old boys currently in the troop, but we will next year.)

Roy wrote:

I turned down a similar calling.

DW and I had been team teaching the 4 yr olds in primary with much success. Then the new year hit and the ward schedule conflicted with my work schedule.

I assume that the local church leadership sought to give me a calling that would not require Sunday attendance thus scouting.

Unfortunately, my son is not yet 8 and this would involve a sacrifice of family time. I would be inclined to accept if DS was attending.

It just didn’t fit me at the moment. I told the bishopric member that I needed to pray about it over night (standard in my home for all big decisions or major purchases) and got back to him that I needed to decline the call.

Thanks for sharing. You give me courage. Did you give a reason for declining the call? How did that go down?

[Daeruin]

Man, I feel for you. I share a lot of your concerns. It’s often rough trying to stay engaged when the conviction just isn’t there. I’ve found meaning in sticking with the church in order to maintain family relationships. I think back on my childhood in the church, which I enjoyed, and it’s pretty easy to want that for my kids, too, even if there’s a cost to myself (mental, emotional, social, financial, etc.). I also think it pays to stay open-minded in both directions. I think I benefit from being made uncomfortable every now and then. It keeps me on my toes and forces me to take nothing for granted.

On the dating topic, I am a living testament to the fact that dating can work out even in the midst of faith crisis. I went into full faith crisis mode soon after I got back from my mission. I went to church on and off during most of college and continued to date. I paid no attention whatsoever to whether the girls I dated were LDS or not. I asked one girl out and never found out whether she was LDS or not. I had a few nonmember friends in classes. Most of the girls were LDS, though, being in Orem as I was. So eventually I started seriously dating this LDS girl who was super smart and beautiful and wonderful. At one point I told her about my doubts and concerns about the church. There was no way to get around it if I wanted our relationship to be honest. She continued to date me even though I told her I probably wouldn’t be able to take her to the temple. After two years of friendship, dating, breaking up, dating again, and getting engaged twice, eventually we decided our mutual love was strong enough and got married outside the temple. Things have not always been easy. But our relationship has weathered numerous problems, including further issues with my faith, or lack thereof. Now I feel like our relationship is stronger than ever. Maybe I got lucky, but I think the others here are right that there are more open-minded single adults in the church than you would think. But you do have to put yourself out there, be honest, and give them the chance to accept you.

[Daeruin]

Taking long, hot showers has always been calming to me. Reading a book that lets me dive deep into the setting and forget my surroundings often has a calming effect as well.

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[Daeruin]

You might warn her against conflating the cause of someone being gay with religious doctrines and beliefs. If God wants or allows someone to be gay, does it really matter whether he does so through genetics, free agency, or some complicated mix of causes? Would the answer force the church to change its doctrine? Basing religious beliefs on some assumed fact that science could potentially disprove is setting yourself up for trouble (think of how the church doesn’t teach against evolution to justify belief in parts of Genesis). Besides, it’s not the position of the church that ssm is an illness. You could show her mormon sandgays.org.

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[Daeruin]

I’m looking forward to listening to this one. I’d be interested to hear anyone else’s reactions.

[Daeruin]

I have family in St George. It’s way too hot for my taste. Good luck with the move!

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[Daeruin]

The blessing went well. I was getting really nervous about it Sunday morning before church, to the point where I could hardly eat breakfast. But when we started getting all the kids ready, in the car, and seated, I was so busy I didn’t have time to worry. I had pretty much prepared beforehand what I was going to say, and following Sunbelt’s idea I had written up some notes on my phone and reviewed them right before standing up to give the blessing. The baby started crying partway through, and it started to throw me off—luckily I had already said most everything I wanted to, so it worked out. I worded things almost exactly as I did in earlier comments on this thread. For the blessing part, I phrased it as asking HF for a blessing, and used “we ask that” and “we pray that” throughout.

I also wanted to point out how things went down as far as arranging the blessing. I was kind of worried about whether they would let me do it or not, since I haven’t been a full tithe payer and don’t have a temple recommend. Thankfully it wasn’t an issue. One of the bishopric came and pulled me out of the nursery the week before and just asked if we could fill out some paperwork for the blessing. He pulled up the record on the computer and simply asked me to fill out all the fields. I put in my name for the person giving the blessing, and that was that. No questions asked. I really like my bishopric.

Thanks again, everyone, for your help and support.

[Daeruin]

Gosh, I love this place. Thank you so much for all the advice and for sharing your stories.

Roadrunner, thanks for the reminders about the mechanics. I was going to have to ask about that anyway. I appreciate Heber, Ray, and everyone who mentioned expressing the blessing as a hope, or asking for a blessing instead of pronouncing it. That’s how I intend to approach it. After giving the name, I plan to say something like “We also ask for a blessing on the baby. We ask that… We hope that…”

Following Sunbelt’s advice, I asked my wife tonight what she would say or if there was anything she’d like me to say. She answered that she thinks most baby blessings are too formulaic and are simply a laundry list of typical Mormon checklist items. She would prefer to not to focus on what the child will do (get baptized, get married in the temple, etc.) but on who the child will be. She mentioned things like blessing the baby to be able to discover his own talents, to tell truth from error, to be kind and loving, and to have a desire to learn. I sure love that woman. I’ve taken some notes so I can be thinking about it and feel prepared when I get up to do the blessing.

I think that before I go up there, I’ll just turn on voice recording on my phone and put it in my front pocket without telling anyone. I’ll let my wife listen to it later, and It’ll be interesting to have the recording around, even if only for nostalgia.

[Daeruin]

I believe the quote comes from Elder Oaks.

While there is no required height for a testimony to get into the chapel, there apparently is to get into the temple, since you must have “a testimony of” God, etc., presumably using the LDS.org definition of testimony, to get a temple recommend.

[Daeruin]

The blog cites D Michael Quinn regarding Pres Kimball’s reaction. I wonder who Quinn cites? Does anyone have that book?

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[Daeruin]

Cool quote! Who is Kahlin Graban?

[Daeruin]

Very cool. Thanks for providing that comparison.

[Daeruin]

Most of them aren’t really commandments…but then, who would be doing the commanding? I’m curious where this list came from.

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[Daeruin]

Heber13 wrote:

You’re a good man to see that and respect others’ views that way. I especially appreciated your example to take the initiative to call him back and show him the relationship was more important than the topic.

+1. Thanks for sharing, SD.

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