Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
So the baptism was today. I was pretty nervous about it, but I just kept focusing on my son and how much it meant to him to have me there and perform the baptism for him. Everything went great. I was worried about getting comments or questions from family members about me, but nobody said anything the least bit annoying. It was a really good experience. Thanks so much to everyone who commented and offered their support. I don’t think I would have been able to do this without you all. Reddit is weird. Late last night when I visited there were something like 66 comments. Today it only shows 44. There were some book recommendations that I meant to write down, but they’re nowhere to be found now. I think it was Orson and Ray who replied, maybe someone else. Care to repeat yourselves?
GBSmith wrote:There is something else you might want to consider. My ex wife worked at the church office building back in the day and said they had an expression, “church broke”. It meant you could work for the church and be around GA’s and not lose your testimony.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I’d be careful. How do you feel about things like SSM? Sexism? Whitewashing of church history? There are some really great people working there, but there are also some bureaucratic types who dislike nonconforming opinions.
I’m pretty easygoing about all that. I’m a live and let live kind of guy. I don’t mind people having their opinions and expressing them, and I’m not easily offended. I think I could stay under the conservative radar easily enough. My father-in-law is as conservative as they come, and we’ve been good friends for a long time. If someone tries to pin me to the wall and starts asking direct, pointed questions, I might get myself into trouble, though.
I wouldn’t lie, either. I just don’t know if they are going to give me a full temple recommend interview, or how they might define “temple worthiness” otherwise. I can obey all the rules. But I’m not sure I can say I believe right now. Just a quick update on this. I have decided for sure to go ahead and baptize my son. I don’t think I would have made that decision without the support and encouragement of you all. I’m still not totally comfortable with every aspect of it, but I think it will be a good thing in the long run. I ended up just putting my name on the form and turning it in. A couple weeks later, we were asked to come in for my son’s interview with the bishop. We ended up bringing in all the kids (we have five kids under 8, so finding a babysitter is not trivial). The interview went really well. I had coached my son by repeating to him a number of times that getting baptized was about promising to do your best, and getting the Holy Ghost was a commitment to listen and learn. He answered the bishop’s questions that way, and the bishop thought it was great. He gave pretty standard primary answers to the other questions. We came to the part about who was doing the baptism, and the bishop just confirmed that it was me and wrote it down. No trouble at all.
I am not doing the confirmation—I just don’t feel that comfortable with it, and my son seems to be totally fine having grandpa do it. I also like the idea of involving other family members, so that works out well.
Here’s a weird and slightly uncomfortable question—what about underwear? I haven’t worn garments in years and don’t even own any. I don’t want any awkwardness over that. Any suggestions?
Thoreau wrote:Non-white shirts and facial hair are not reliable indicators.
cwald wrote:Really?
cwald, I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or serious.EuSouScott wrote:Let me clarify my comment (as well as play devil’s advocate). If I were to approach this issue from a scientific basis, one could argue that it ISN’T natural.
Evolution teaches us about natural selection and that the desire to have sex and the reward for having sex (orgasm) is a very ‘reptilian’ and subconscious motivation to produce offspring and propitiate your progeny. (This is of course assuming that the theory of evolution and natural selection are accepted as truth)
I looked into this a while back. I was also confused about the status of homosexuality from an evolutionary perspective. If homosexuality is genetic, and people who have that gene don’t reproduce (as often, if at all), how does the trait get passed on? How does it keep popping up in new generations? Wouldn’t it just die out?There are a few answers. I’m no expert and I might mangle them a bit. One possible answer is called the “gay uncle” theory. The idea is that the “gay uncle” could absolutely contribute to the survival of the species—by protecting the women and children, helping to hunt, or whatever else needs to be done—without posing a threat to the reproducing males of the community. And the gay uncle would be more likely to help their own kin who would share more of their DNA that might get passed down. Another theory is that the genes could have been passed down by bisexuals rather than strictly homosexuals.
Another important consideration is that genes aren’t always strictly binary. Some genes have more than one purpose or are linked to the expression of other genes. So the gay gene could be essentially tagging along with another essential gene that has a stronger evolutionary purpose and that outweighs the negatives of potentially producing some gay offspring that don’t reproduce. Some genes also interact with the environment and only get expressed under certain conditions, or they change how they are expressed as the environment changes. Our environment has changed quite a bit since the advent of agriculture and more advanced technology. One example of an environmental change that could potentially affect our genes is bottle feeding (just as a random example).
Of course, these are all just ideas. Nobody has proved anything that I know of. But it goes to show that there are possible scientific explanations.
Of course we’re all just relating our own experiences and points of view. There’s probably a different line for every person and every relationship. Discovering where that line is for you and your wife might be a matter of trial and error. As I have slowly shared certain thoughts and feelings with my wife, I have constantly been surprised at how open and loving she is about what I’ve shared. But I have done so very slowly. I think that gives her time to get used to things. I do have an ideal of being as emotionally open as possible with my wife. I hope that with time, our boundary will be expanded so that I can share almost anything with her. I see no reason to share potentially faith-destroying facts anymore than I would tell her something emotionally destructive like “Your hair is really ugly” or “I hate your mom and never want to see her again.” But I can still be emotionally honest enough that she knows what my general concerns are and where I stand on important issues. Welcome to StayLDS. I’m glad you are here with us. I have similar issues in my marriage. I’m a little different than a lot of people here in that I had already experienced my faith crisis before getting married, and my wife still married me anyway (not in the temple). Yet I know that my lack of faith and my choice not to go to the temple still causes her pain. We have had very few discussions about faith and gospel issues in our 10 years of marriage for that reason. I can’t bring myself to lie about how I feel, but I also can’t stand seeing her cry—which she has done numerous times (almost every time we talk about it). It must be immeasurably harder in your situation. I don’t envy you, and I really hope you find a way to navigate through it.
mercyngrace wrote:My advice (worth a whole two cents) is to answer her questions in ways that leave room for future conversations as she is more prepared to have them. Also, answer in such a way that you leave room for yourself to continue to move through your faith crisis. Some issues that you grapple with today may feel much less significant in a year or three so don’t wed yourself to a position – just let her know you are honestly seeking answers. And that you love her.
I think it’s important to let her know that you are not necessarily closing any doors. You shouldn’t hide your doubt, and definitely do not hide the fact that you are seeking answers—in essence, that you are still trying (assuming you are, in some way).Pretty much everything Orson said is pure gold.
new6 wrote:I am happy to participate (i.e. go to church, go to the temple, pay tithing, hold callings on my own terms). My preference for the long term would be to just participate with the family and not really have theological discussions with my wife. We never really did before my faith crisis anyway. Basically I wish I could undisclose what I have already disclosed to her.
Why are you still happy participating? What is it that has allowed you to continue participating fully and still find peace? Is there a way to communicate that to your wife? Like On Own Now mentioned, anything you can find that you can agree on or believe in common will probably help a lot. Especially if she knows that you are still committed to her and your family.mackay11 wrote:I need to spend some time collating this and the google doc
What do you mean by collating? Personally, I would love to have these quotes organized by topics or keyword tags somehow, so I could find them easier. There are some really awesome ones in here.Hear hear! Many of us are here because we’ve heard the church’s party line and listened to the standard Sunday School answers for years, and they have not worked for us. If those answers always worked for us, we would not be here. Yet for various reasons, we want to stay connected to the LDS church. Many of us continue to have questions that we would be run out of church just for asking—yet they are important questions to us. We need a place to feel safe working through our darkest thoughts and deepest doubts without being judged or criticized ourselves. Unfortunately, that safe place is not always the church. That’s my take, anyway. I would also be interested to see the responses to this. Yesterday, for the first time in 13 years, I thought about maybe trying to go back to the temple. Not sure it will happen, but I actually have hope that it might be. I’m also wondering if the actual temple recommend interview questions can be found anywhere?
