Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
AmyJ wrote:
Is it plausible that something like this happened? What does it take for multiple cultures/groups of people to integrate successfully into other groups of people?
Absolutely it’s possible things like this have happened because things like this have been happening since humans became sentient enough to act like humans. I recently finished reading the duo of books,
The Origins of Political Orderand Political Decayby Francis Fukuyama. In them, the author details and weaves the world’s history from pre-civilized times to our modern era in a way I’ve never seen done before. It took me months to get through both books, but the knowledge gained was extremely paradigm shifting and rewarding. Typically, cultures/groups of people integrate “successfully” into other groups through violence of the stronger group. It has happened that way on every continent, in every nation, and to most groups of people. Some groups had a longer run of their violent reign, and some groups were more violent than others. But violence is the most common thread that weaves assimilation, especially total assimilation, throughout human history. Even when people assimilate into other cultures/groups of people willingly, it’s not without its struggles, doubts, and questioning. It’s difficult to find belonging in unfamiliar places, with people who value different things than you. I agree with Roy in the sense that if some people deem their current culture to be better or easier to live within instead of resisting, then that can cause them to assimilate. I also think that there are various levels of assimilation.
To literally answer your whole question:
maybeit’s possible that a tribe decided to assimilate into another tribe of their own volition. However, I am led to believe otherwise when I consider history and current events. I think it’s important to be able to distinguish between stuff that is intended to be pornographic, stuff that is erotica, stuff that is nudity, and stuff that isn’t sexual in any nature. Being able to masturbate to women in the Ensign does not make those images function like pornography. Rather, the person who masturbated has projected himself onto them and required that they now be sexual images for his own purposes. He has a pornographic lens, but he’s not viewing pornography. To me, that is one of the biggest pitfalls of regular or consistent pornography use: turning other people into sexual objects due to their own unmanaged desires. I would also add that the above is a reason why women tend to not want men with porn issues. It’s tough to want to sign up to be teaching and coaching your significant other about healthy sexuality when, as an adult, it’s truly their own responsibility to cultivate that. Plus, it’s not desirable to want to be on the receiving end of whatever misguided expectations the man has formed from viewing so much porn while often having little to no actual sexual experience.
I think this is often important to bring up: being aroused is not inherently bad. Being aroused by things that are supposed to be arousing isn’t inherently bad. What we all do with our own arousal CAN be healthy or destructive, and we are responsible for those actions. Blaming my arousal on someone else gets no one anywhere, and further frustrates the problem because I’ve just shifted responsibility. Other people/images/film being provocative isn’t the issue, IMO. What we each do with our arousal, for instance if we blame others for being provocative, is our responsibility.
Lastly, while I definitely have wishes to be more authentic and open at church, it’s not a place that I want to become a pseudo-therapy joint. Being open and honest when the situation calls for it is one thing; requiring that others understand whenever I want to talk about it is another.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love it! People are people are people. Doesn’t matter what time we live in. Gives more strength to the edict to “overcome the natural man”, as this provides ample evidence that, by and large, humans are naturally self-serving and create various stories to achieve the natural drive to be sociable. AmyJ wrote:
“But behold, I, Jacob, would speak unto you that are pure in heart… O all ye that are pure in heart…But wo, wo be unto you that are not pure in heart…”I really appreciate you posting the whole passage, but these phrases stuck out like a sore thumb to me. I find it so fascinating that from the beginning, Jacob is dividing up who he’s talking to, when he’s talking to them, and the reason for the division, IE pureness of heart. I wonder, if every person who Jacob regarded as Not Pure in Heart were surveyed, would they have the same view of themselves? Inversely, would every person who he deemed as Pure in Heart think of themselves that way, too? It’s been shown in studies that essentially most people believe in their work and their decisions, and actually the more fanatical someone is, the more confident and sure of they are in their correctness. Due to these reasons, I find Jacob’s splitting of people ironic.
Lately, hearing BoM stories has a large amount of power to me in the sense that it shows just how human we all are, especially people who are thought of as God’s Chosen Servants/People. And that message is largely positive to me.
AmyJ wrote:
Now the spiritual application:“What is the spiritual equivalent for “wash your hands”? The universal spiritual principle that everyone should practice to ensure spiritual health and well-being?
Do your best and make sure you’re honoring your inner conscience.
Other than that, I’m not that interested in having a cure-all for spiritual health and well-being, mostly because I don’t believe there is one, especially not one that applies to everyone equally and in all circumstances.
Also, it’s worth noting that hand washing doesn’t ensure health and well-being. It prevents one mode of infection transmission. It is not a substitute for healthy eating, physical movement/exercise, proper medication, appropriate surgery, access to clean water, meaningful relationships, etc. If I go to an emergency room with appendicitis and the surgeon tells me the most important thing for her to do is to wash her hands, I’m going to ask for a different surgeon. Similarly in church, if I have an appendicitis-like question and someone tells me the spiritual equivalent of making sure my hands are washed, then I’m going to find someone else to talk with.
Lastly, it also amuses and baffles me when people expect healthcare workers to suddenly stop being human due to their profession. Healthcare workers don’t have 100% hand washing practices because they’re focused on other things, and they are human. They’re not purposefully malevolent.
nibbler wrote:
Quote:In reference to the law of chastity, have you always lived in accordance with what has been discussed? If not, how long ago did the transgression(s) occur? What have you done to repent?
Quote:Have you lived in accordance with all of these standards? Are you now living in accordance with them? Will you live in accordance with them as a full-time missionary?
Which implies that the youth are expected to recount sins and their repentance process for sins that have already been resolved with a church leader.
My interpretation of these questions is to “ensure” that past behaviors are done away with and won’t interfere/be a distraction during the mission. IE, someone who has done something serious in the past needs more evaluation so that it can be nearly guaranteed that it won’t happen again. I don’t think it’s a productive tactic, and agree that it’s purposefully muddying the waters.
Roy wrote:
nibbler wrote:
Which implies that the youth are expected to recount sins and their repentance process for sins that have already been resolved with a church leader.
DW and I both served in different missions. We were both told that if an investigator asked us if we had ever committed xyz sin that we could honestly answer that we had not because the Lord remembered it no more. This new set of questions implies a different standard of transparency for investigators than for church officials. interesting.
Roy, this is an interesting perspective. I can understand the rationale behind “Don’t confess because God doesn’t remember it anymore” but I think that does the concept of forgiveness an injustice. You can’t forgive if you don’t know what the reality of a situation or person is. I also think it can be counterproductive to forget a past experience. Additionally, is it shameful if you keep remembering what you’ve done although you’ve been told that God doesn’t remember? What if it’s helpful to de-brief about the situation so that you can learn more about yourself and about life? What if you go back to certain moments at different points in your life and continue to learn from your past mistakes? Also, I would think that, to some extent, being able to relate to investigators about moments of guilt, embarrassment, or regret would be a positive thing. It could be a really powerful way to show others that there is a way to change, and that lots of us are doing it as well. Brene Brown’s research about vulnerability and shame apply well in this scenario.
nibbler wrote:
To me it’s another case where there’s a problem with a church program and the perspective is that the problem lies entirely on the participant side of the equation. We’ve got to harden/prepare our youth for the rigors of a mission, make sure they are reading their scriptures 3 hours a day, and biking to church 4 hours uphill both ways. That will prepare them for a mission. Or we could make missions suck less.This sentiment reminds me of how it is to work in healthcare. You are held accountable for your own burnout, regardless of the very stressful patient populations and diseases, as well as the hugely important yet infinitely detailed responsibility of charting. I’m all for personal accountability, but I won’t take responsibility for conditions of the environment that are outside of my control.
Regarding porn use, I think it important to mention the male-centricity of most of it. Usually, the men are the arbiters, the agents who engage and the women are there to fulfill his desires. I think this is especially problematic for people who have never had any sexual experience in real life, as it sets them up for unrealistic expectations. Even acknowledging that it’s fantasy, there are still lots of things that don’t bubble up to the surface until you’re in a sexual relationship with someone else. Like others have said, removing shame and anxiety/fear is usually a good thing, but I’m also hesitant to put a blue ribbon on consuming porn. Additionally, pragmatically speaking, the industry is notoriously terrible to the actors, and a lot of them don’t have much choice regarding their “careers”. Is it a deal breaker or divorce maker? No. But it’s not in the positive column either.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Roy wrote:
Originally the church patriarch gave blessings to those members who did not have a father that was a member of the church. It was the right of the father (as the natural patriarch) to give these blessings to his offspring. I feel that it is important for me to give father’s blessings every year before school starts. It is relationship binding and that is significant to me.I also feel that the father’s blessings help to allay fears and bolster courage for the unknown. PB’s also have this benefit. Can it be a Dumbo’s feather? Sometimes, but maybe we all need a little help to take that first step out into the darkness.
😮 I had no idea that patriarchal blessings had these origins..! That sheds an entirely new light on church history, especially when it’s linked with sealings and eternal families – IE spiritual adoption and eternal increase. That is super interesting.From what I’ve heard, women used to give blessings of healing. I love your description of having your sons be a line of priesthood in your family. How you described it made me want to be a part of a meaningful tradition as well.
My PB is mostly generic. I used to agonize over specific phrasing and wording, usually pertaining to the marriage portion. “It says YOUNG man, but how young is young? Now that I’m getting ‘older’ does that mean I have to go for an early 20s guy now? What does it all MEAN??” But I think I put a lot of undue and unhealthy fixation into those outcomes instead of living and learning through reality, and even though I catch my thoughts going back to my PB, I’m a lot more open to many options for my life now.
However, the patriarch did mention that he hadn’t had something come up before in his blessings, something that did come up in mine. It relates to callings in the church. For the few years I was inactive I was a bit self-righteous about how I
knewthat part couldn’t happen anymore. Now that I go to church fairly often, I chuckle at my former self and am inquisitive about where my life will go next. Funnily, there is a part that’s always stuck with me – that my life would literally be protected. I never understood that part until earlier this year I made a ridiculously stupid decision that could have resulted in legal action against me, but the other party chose not to engage. If nothing else, that phrase has come to pass in that instance and I will be forever grateful that my life (what future there is/was of it) was protected and passed on unscathed. I have little qualms about the dissonance of believing in that portion and being cautiously curious about the rest of my PB. What a fantastic story of a bishop taking proper care of his ward family. Seriously wonderful. Also, how great is it that you were the one he talked with, mom3?? I want to give you kudos, too, because you helped validate and support him while he does something atypical. Thanks for the story!
I’m not super impressed by a lie detector test being defeated. I knew before that they aren’t very reliable, and I thought that results weren’t allowed to be submitted as evidence in court…? I could be wrong, but I’m too lazy to Google check myself. I think I found out about the seer stones via someone’s avatar on here, interestingly enough. I don’t remember the participant, but the avatar is an image of JS looking into a hat, to use the seer stones as he ‘translates’ the BoM. That was pretty shocking and world-crumbling for me. I haven’t revisited it too heavily since then, but I do try to incorporate my other knowledge into my picture of JS. For example, I take into consideration all of the ways the brain wires itself together that we have learned about in the last 100+ years. Synesthesia is a good example. Today we classify it in technical terms, complete with rigorous methods of testing for diagnosis. It’s important to note that synesthesia isn’t classified as a mental illness, though, because the individuals still have perfect (read: whole) functioning in their daily lives.
Did JS have some sort of hallucinogenic or visionary brain, where he saw things “in his mind’s eye” and experienced them akin to how he experienced everything else? If so, it would make sense that he described his experiences to others in explicit detail and would be very inspiring. I think most visionaries are like that, regardless of if their visions inspiring hope and faith or power and dominance. However, the trickiest part is how much we, as a community and individuals, buy into the literalness of it all. It’s up to us to accept evolving ways of receiving new light and understanding, especially if they don’t come from our professed tribe.
As far as him being responsible for blowing the lid on church history, one commenter noted that it may have been sensationalized and brought into the public’s mind more, but it sounds like there were people dedicated to the mission of scholarship in church history long before Hofmann.
If you have a calling that you feel personally prepped and excited for, that’s great news! I myself am a teacher in the ward, and I love it. Nowadays I view the lessons as challenges to view the doctrine/teaching in a new light, both for me and the class members. FWIW, in the Virtue lesson, I completely nixed the first story of the couple who “imploded” their lives by having pre-marital sex. That’s a damaging idea to promulgate, in my mind, so I just skipped it. I’ve taught every lesson as authentically as I can, and class members have come to me after class and commented on how much they’ve liked my lessons. I would say trust your conscience, but don’t vent your issues. It’s not necessary for you to pretend to be someone your not, but being a teacher does come with certain responsibilities – building faith, hope, and commitment among those responsibilities. It already sounds like you want to help others, and that’s the best place you can start from.
Nice link, DJ. Thanks. I like your highlights, as well as this one: Quote:Religion — choose one — is used far too often as a weapon to batter us into submission rather than to lift us out of bondage.
Beefster, I’m going to have to agree with Curt, even after your clarification. I’ve only heard the quip “I don’t believe in race” come from white people, especially ones who are uncomfortable hearing about non-white people’s experiences of racism. I’ve lived in Harlem, and I would dare any white person to tell a black person there that race is meaningless and a petty issue. The white people who control the world have made black people’s race an issue, and therefore something that black people have had to contend with. Also, boiling people’s issues down to various levels of racial privilege is additionally insensitive and ignorant. Chris Rock has a funny quip: “No white man would want to trade places with me, and I’m rich!” When black teenagers are immediately classified as dangerous and guilty until proven innocent through intensive investigation while white teenagers caught red-handed are given every benefit of the doubt, that’s when “racial privileges” amount to more than just differences between cultures.
Additionally, there’s plenty of hospitals in the area and I’ve seen many black people in scrubs and white coats. I’ve also seen a lot of people in the area dressed in suits and ties during the week, on their way to their finance jobs. Like you said, it may be that you’ve mostly been in white neighborhoods. I’ve learned that once you live among people who are different than you in almost every way, you learn that other people are just like you. I think America can take a page from South Africa and fully acknowledge its race issues in order to move forward, after all you can’t treat a wound if you don’t think it exists.
Lastly, the woman seems like she’s certifiable. Skin color change or not, breast implants that size are ridiculous for so many reasons. Also, not all black women have “curves” like that.
Beefster, that’s a fair point about the inability of a same-sex pairing being maladaptive in the sense that it can’t reproduce. I guess I usually flit over that for some of the reasons that you mentioned above. I also found it interesting that the church was mostly mute on the subject until the late ’60s. Prince mentioned the Stonewall riots in 1969 and a light flicked on in my head regarding a connection between the two, similar to learning about the priesthood ban and the situation around the first temple in Brazil. It adds another layer to my understanding.
I’ve also heard some people speculate that only people I the highest level of the CK will be able to have sex and therefore have spirit babies. That begs more questions such as what happens to everyone else’s reproductive systems? Do they have them? Are they not there? What sort of medical device is implanted to account for the dead space inside them now? Do class action lawsuits exist if the medical devices malfunction? Can we sue God??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
