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Today I presented the HP lesson #3 on Free Agency. Shortly after the manual was made available on the net, I found this lesson and asked the HPGL if I could give it. The thing that so attracted me in it was its reference to obedience. That pressed one of my hot buttons because Free Agency and Obedience are superficially at least at conflict. I quoted ET Benson for an introduction then moved on to reinforcing how the war in heaven was all about free agency. It is a foundational principle established in the Council in Heaven and resulted in 1/3 of the host of heaven got kicked out of heaven because they supported Lucifer’s plan of guaranteeing our obedience. Then I told the story of Victor Frankl’s, Man’s Search for Meaning:
Quote:We who lived, in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms — to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
And there were always choices to make. Every day, every hour, offered the opportunity to make a decision, a decision which determined whether you would or would not submit to those powers which threatened to rob you of your very self, your inner freedom; which determined whether or not you would become the plaything of circumstance, renouncing freedom and dignity to become molded into to stoop to the form of the typical inmate.
I then quoted Elder Worthlin’s Oct 08 talk about “Concern for the One” and the importance of each of us respecting and supporting others who are different than us.There were 12 people in class and I got 7 thank you’s from them before I could leave the building. It felt so good to get such a strong response from them about a subject I feel so passionate about.
Many years ago I read a book about orginizational behavior, I believe by David Gardner, but it’s title I forget at the moment. Anyway he said the last act of a dying organization is to produce a new rule book. I’m not saying the Church is dying, but it is very mature. On another subject: If the PTB’s weren’t at least closely following John’s story, they would be guilty IMO of negligence because this story is making a martyr of him in many peoples eyes. It will only hurt their cause. IMO they should have gotten in front of this story and managed it better, if possible. I recall when Sterling McMurrin got in the crosshairs of the Church, Pres McKay told the stake leaders he would personally be a witness for McMurrin. The story never became a big deal
OTOH John telling the Church what their doctrine should be is totally out of line. He’s a bright guy who should know better.
Quote:I understand why outsiders can come to the conclusion Mormons don’t believe in Christ. We do talk of Christ, rejoice in Christ, preach of Christ and prophesy of Christ – but not nearly enough and not nearly as much as we should IMO.
Amen.Many years ago my FC began on Christmas Sunday, I sat through the three hour block, without ever hearing any reference to Christ (with the exception of the standard prayers). I still am bugged about how much the Church low balls Christ.
Since I have returned to activity, I remind myself how lay ministry means people are already spending many hours every week in their callings. I can’t expect them to put on Christmas and Easter shows that can compete with those put together in other churches with a paid staff. So typically, my wife and I attend an Episcopalian service every Christmas and Easter. It’s quite refreshing. But for the other 50 weeks, in the year, I do enjoy sacrament meeting. It’s where I feel God wants me to be.
I too, am perplexed how others could not see the “issues” in the church. They just seemed so blatant and obvious. In a HP class I was teaching, I gently suggested that there were some issues in Church history that could be problematic, if not for them, then perhaps for their family or friends. I asked whether they would like to know these issues and discuss how to respond. I got a very stern response from one brother who said simply, “We don’t need to go into all that. All we need to do is to bare our testimonies.” I fear that such studied certainty will not serve the Church very well. The notion that the prophets & apostles will never lead the saints away, and that if the leaders have spoken the thinking has been done, leaves no wiggle room. Trees that don’t flex in the wind are more likely to come crashing down.
There is just so much info on the internet that can be overwhelming, and they have no tools to deal with it. For me, the single most important resource for surviving my FC is this site. The second is the Given’s book “The God Who Weeps”.
Good grief. Our oversexed society seems to turn everything possible into hyper-sex. Movies, and other media are flashing pictures of cleavage, buts, bare-chested jocks and anything else they think they can get away with. But for normal, non sexual nudity our culture has a noticeable reaction. I’m a member of a local gym, and am amazed at how many men make sure their genitals are covered up all the time. They change from a wet swim suit to their underwear under a towel wrap. That’s particularly true of the under 35 year old guys. Some men even swim with a T-shirt! I live in the deep south and am amazed at the number of joggers who insist on jogging with shirts when it’s 100 degrees with 90% humidity. Thirty or forty years ago men jogged with just a set of trunks, and women with an added covering for their top that allowed soe airing of their tummies.
Yet 50-100 years ago swim suits, particularly for the men were rare if non existent luxury. Women, not so much. The guys went go swimming au-natural and think nothing of it. And I believe that they had less problems with sexual crimes than today.
At other times and places nudity and near nudity are not considered sexual. Classic paintings and sculpture with nude subjects, both men and women celebrate the beauty of the human form, not its prurient interpretation. Contemporary cultures in Europe, Central America, Africa and Asia aren’t obsessively clothed. How did we become such prudish sex fiends?
IMO I believe our obsession with modesty is counter productive to a healthy, safe attitude about nudity. (And no, I’ve never been to a nudist colony) I’m just glad I’m not a youth growing up in today’s society that makes the human body a sex object.
Thanks Eternity, I read right past “Official Declarations” reading only what I wanted to read.
😮 I agree with you that the Proclamation on Families has not been sustained by the Church membership, and therefore is not part of Official Doctrine.Furthermore, it has not been inserted into the Standard Works, including the electronic version on LDS.org. So I would say the LDS Newsroom was speaking out of church.
That will obviously be not in the lesson I teach.
May I suggest Chapter 3 of the same manual scheduled for PR & RS the second Sunday in February. It has some good stuff on Free Agency. I am teaching Chapter 3, and following are some supplemental quotes I have collected for it. Following is my mostly unedited material:
Dieter Uchtdorf, April 2013
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/four-titles?lang=eng But while the Atonement is meant to help us all become more like Christ, it is not meant to make us all the same. Sometimes we confuse differences in personality with sin. We can even make the mistake of thinking that because someone is different from us, it must mean they are not pleasing to God. This line of thinking leads some to believe that the Church wants to create every member from a single mold—that each one should look, feel, think, and behave like every other. This would contradict the genius of God, who created every man different from his brother, every son different from his father. Even identical twins are not identical in their personalities and spiritual identities. It also contradicts the intent and purpose of the Church of Jesus Christ, which acknowledges and protects the moral agency—with all its far-reaching consequences—of each and every one of God’s children. As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are united in our testimony of the restored gospel and our commitment to keep God’s commandments. But we are diverse in our cultural, social, and political preferences.
Elder Todd Christofferson, May 2012, The Doctrine of Christ
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/the-doctrine-of-christ?lang=eng The Prophet Joseph Smith confirmed the Savior’s central role in our doctrine in one definitive sentence: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”
Joseph Smith
History of the Church, 5:24
“Christ was condemned by the righteous Jews because he took sinners into his society. He took them upon the principle that they repented of their sins. … The nearer we get to our Heavenly Father, the more are we disposed to look with compassion on perishing souls to take them upon our shoulders and cast their sins behind our back. … There should be no license for sin, but mercy should go hand in hand with reproof. … You must repent and get the love of God.”
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/approaching-mormon-doctrine LDS Newsroom, “Approaching Mormon Doctrine,” (4 May 2007)
Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency…and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles…counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.
Joseph Smith
History of the Church, 5:24
Christ was condemned by the righteous Jews because he took sinners into his society. He took them upon the principle that they repented of their sins. … The nearer we get to our Heavenly Father, the more are we disposed to look with compassion on perishing souls to take them upon our shoulders and cast their sins behind our back. … There should be no license for sin, but mercy should go hand in hand with reproof. … You must repent and get the love of God.”
Elder Uchtdorf
General Conference, Oct. 2009
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/print/2009/10/two-principles-for-any-economy?lang=eng “Please encourage your families, your quorum members, everyone to learn and become better educated. If formal education is not available, do not allow that to prevent you from acquiring all the knowledge you can. Under such circumstances, the best books, in a sense, can become your “university”—a classroom that is always open and admits all who apply. Strive to increase your knowledge of all that is “virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy.” Seek knowledge “by study and also by faith.”
Elder Bruce Hafen,
“On Dealing with Uncertainty” Ensign July 1979.
“We need to develop the capacity to form judgments of our own about the value of ideas, opportunities, or people who may come into our lives.
We won’t always have the security of knowing whether a certain idea is “Church approved,” because new ideas don’t always come along with little tags attached to them saying whether they have been reviewed at Church headquarters.
Whether in the form of music, books, friends, or opportunities to serve, there is much that is lovely, of good report, and praiseworthy that is not the subject of detailed discussion in Church manuals or courses of instruction.
Those who will not risk exposure to experiences that are not obviously related to some Church word or program will, I believe, live less abundant and meaningful lives than the Lord intends.
We must develop sufficient independence of judgment and maturity of perspective that we are prepared to handle the shafts and whirlwinds of adversity and contradiction that may come to us.
When those times come, we cannot be living on borrowed light. We should not be deceived by the clear-cut labels others may use to describe circumstances that are, in fact, not so clear.
Our encounters with reality and disappointment are, actually, vital stages in the development of our maturity and understanding.”
Richard Lloyd Anderson, “Parables of Mercy,” Ensign, Feb 1987, 20
Any religious group that values purity and morality must deal with the problem of clannishness. However, clannishness can be largely avoided if the members of the group have a vigorous concern to share. There is a big difference between reaching out and shutting out—and Jesus steadily opposed every hint of the latter.
Note: The following quote is from a man who is not Mormon, but IMO gives the best description on a spiritual level of what free agency can be.Victor Frankl
Man’s Search For MeaningWe who lived, in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms — to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
And there were always choices to make. Every day, every hour, offered the opportunity to make a decision, a decision which determined whether you would or would not submit to those powers which threatened to rob you of your very self, your inner freedom; which determined whether or not you would become the plaything of circumstance, renouncing freedom and dignity to become molded into the form of the typical inmate.
About Victor Frankl from Wikipedia.com:
Viktor Emil Frankl, M.D., Ph.D. (26 March 1905 – 2 September 1997)[1][2] was an Austrian neurologist and psychiatrist as well as a Holocaust survivor. Frankl was the founder of logotherapy, which is a form of existential analysis, the “Third Viennese School of Psychotherapy”. His best-selling book Man’s Search for Meaning (published under a different title in 1959: From Death-Camp to Existentialism, and originally published in 1946 as Trotzdem Ja Zum Leben Sagen: Ein Psychologe erlebt das Konzentrationslager, meaning Nevertheless, Say “Yes” to Life: A Psychologist Experiences the Concentration Camp) chronicles his experiences as a concentration camp inmate, which led him to discover the importance of finding meaning in all forms of existence, even the most brutal ones, and thus, a reason to continue living.
Re: A little venting, but a question about the need for faith
Unread postby eman » 2013 Apr 26, 22:38
Martha wrote:… Why do I even need to believe in any these things or in anything. I know who I am. I know the way I want to live my life. I am starting to wonder how helpful or important it is to try and develop faith again. Maybe its time to set all this aside and just live my life being as loving and kind to others as I can. i dont need faith to do that.
I’ll take up the “for” argument…
First quote:
The call to faith is a summons to engage the heart, to attune it to resonate in sympathy with principles and values and ideals that we devoutly hope are true and which we have reasonable but not certain grounds for believing to be true
For me this is faith. I have absolutely no certainty that God exists. Yet I hope He does and to me, it is reasonable that He does. Sure we can explain away much of the creation of life, but yet there are some things for which science has no explanation.
Whatever sense we make of this world, whatever value we place upon our lives and relationships, whatever meaning we ultimately give to our joys and agonies, must necessarily be a gesture of faith.
This reminds me of a video I saw where Russell M. Nelson (Q12) relates the following: “I was in a small airplane and all of a sudden the engine on the wing caught fire. It exploded and burning oil was poured all over the right side of the airplane and we started to dive toward the earth. We were spinning down to our death. Oh, this woman across the aisle, I felt so sorry for her, she was just absolutely uncontrollably hysterical and I was calm. I was totally calm, even though I knew I was going down to my death, I was ready to meet my maker We didn’t crash, we didn’t die.” He goes on to explain that “if you’ve got enough faith you can handle difficulties knowing that with an eternal perspective that all will be well.” With this in mind, again, I choose to have faith in God and in life beyond this one because it is better than the alternative to me. I know there was a long thread about whether it would be so bad if there wasn’t life beyond, but still, I choose to believe that my life has greater purpose for no other reason then that I want to. It is a pleasant thought.
Whether we consider the whole a product of impersonal cosmic forces, a malevolent deity, or a benevolent god, depends not on the evidence, but on what we choose, deliberately and consciously, to conclude from that evidence.
Early in my faith crisis I was convinced that everything about the church was fraud. I barely believed in God at all. I believed that the “evidence” compelled me to believe the church was false. Since then I’ve come to understand that the motive or truthfulness of something can’t be determined by simply weighing the evidence. All known evidence can (and sometimes does) point to a defendant on trial as being guilty and yet after being convicted some piece of evidence will come to light that completely invalidates all the evidence of the conviction (such as DNA has done recently). Thus in most cases it is left up to us, imperfect people with limited understanding to choose for ourselves to the best of our ability what we want to believe.
Faith often asks us to turn a blind eye to the incongruities and inconsistencies of belief in the divine. But reason comes up short as well in accounting for those moments of deepest love and yearning, of unspeakable calm in the midnight of anguish, of the shards of light visible to the inner eye alone.
In the depth of my faith crisis I completely ignored all those things that can’t be explained by science and reason (confirmation bias towards no divine intervention). Now however, I recognize that there do seem to be “miracles,” things that happen that just defy reason. I don’t know why it seems to happen to some but not others and seems so random. Nevertheless, I believe somehow miracles can happen.
The greatest act of self-revelation occurs when we choose what we will believe, in that space of freedom that exists between knowing that a thing is, and knowing that a thing is not.
I feel that since my faith crisis I understand a little better what we teach about the need to come to earth, outside the presence of God, in order to have choice. When I was…more orthodox in the LDS faith, I believed I had choice. Yet believing that I knew sort of compelled me to act in accordance with the teachings of the church. If not, I would suffer guilt until I repented and complied. I feared that poor choices would lead me to Hell. Now that I don’t KNOW everything is the way the church teaches, truly have been able to choose for myself the path I would walk. I could leave the church tomorrow and never go back. I would not suffer guilt or fear of Hell and damnation. I’d miss my friends…probably….well, some of them
:wtf: But I could still do it. So now I know a little more about my self. I know that I live the way I do because I want to, not because of some reward or fear of punishment. I want to be clear that I am NOT implying that should someone choose NOT to believe in God or the church that they are any less free or worse off. Nor do I believe that God will condemn them for it. I believe God will judge us based on the reasons why we do what we do according to the beliefs of our heart.Faith is a choice. For me choosing to believe in more than this life brings me hope and joy. As Ray said, determine what would bring you the most joy and hope, justify it with reason, and choose to have faith in it.
Quote:Old-Timer » I would love to hear that lesson, dash1730.
I’ll be happy to share it when I get it put together. My biggest advantage is the lesson manual that focuses strongly on free agency and mentions obedience only in passing. My biggest challenge is to present it in a way that doesn’t offend.
Quote:our HPGL emailed us the lesson schedule for the year a few days ago and I am already planning which Sundays to skip.
I too, scanned the years offering, and wasn’t much impressed, except for Lesson #3, on Free Agency. I was reasonably impressed with the discussion. But what caught my eye was one reference to Obedience. I immediately emailed my HPGL and asked to teach that lesson. Those two principles taken together encompass some powerful concepts, for example
First of all Obedience and Free Agency are foundational concepts going back to the ore-existence:
Lucifer’s plan for forcing obedience was overtly rejected, even with it meaning 1/3 the host of heaven were lost forever
Christ’s alternative overtly gave us our free agency,to experiment and choose for ourselves. It also provided a way that Christ would pay
for our sins, providing we mend our ways, i.e. repent.
We have no need to be a puppet on a string, following every perceived command by our file leaders and/or God
Free agency means far more than political and economic freedom
We must make decisions every day that contribute to developing a Christ like character: Think compassion, altruism, generosity, loving
God and your fellow man, anger management, driving friendly, emotionally support your family, regardless of whether you approve,
etc. etc. etc
On the surface obedience and free agency are counter to one another, a paradox
Our task is to learn to want to choose good
But since every blessing is predicated upon the principle upon which it is predicated, that shouldn’t be terribly impossible.
Science and engineering have shown us how such obedience can give us such marvels as jet airplanes, the internet, medical science.
Likewise, I believe obedience to fundamental gospel principles brings us more joy, peace and comfort. I most cases we don’t have to
wait for the hereafter to realize some benefits. After all, man is that he might have joy.
Quote:What are your beliefs about the First Vision?
I doubt there will ever be a definitive, verifiable, objective answer to the reality of the First Vision. There will always be room for doubt, as there is room for faith. Anything beyond that is speculation.So for my mortal experience, I ask what are the relative benefits of belief and disbelief?
Benefits of Disbelief:1 free day every week
A 10+% reduction in expenses
additional responsibilities absolved
Nobody telling me how to lead my life.
Can free myself from concern about polygamy, bigotry, corporatism, and dogmatism
Benefits of BeliefFostering a healthy lifestyle, and above average longevity
Opportunity to regularly meet with good people who try to help others
Encouragement to get a secular education
Belong to a Church who’s divorce rate among temple marriages are among the lowest of any group
Strong sense of moral and ethical values that have kept me out of a peck of troubles
A cosmology that gives me hope that and meaning to life, a plausible sounding explanation for the pain and suffering of mortality
(see the God Who Weeps)
I’m amazed the Church has survived the trauma of tar & feathering, numerous legal and mortal attacks on JS, his assassination, rape and
pillage, federal troupes marching on SLC, church property confiscated by the federal government in an attempt to bankrupt the Church
and force it to change its doctrine and practice of polygamy, Abraham Smoot denied a seat in the Senate for 6 years, the Great
Depression, a doctrinal about-face on the Blacks and the Priesthood. Current doctrine is evolving on gays, and the Church is doing a
remarkable job of unearthing its history (yet not recognized by the Correlation Committee).
Now the Church has 15 Million members with congregations in 160 countries, the only American church that has more members outside
the country than inside. It’s one of few churches who have no paid ministry. Compared to other groups its members are more knowledgeable about the OT & NT, are more charitable, live longer, and have lower divorce rate (as compared to temple marriages).
WOW!!! Talk about a savior on Mount Zion! Regardless of his religious convictions, if any, his heart is right with God. Thank you for starting this blog. I have thought for some time I should start a gratitude journal, but just didn’t do it. I appreciate this reminder. Merry Christmas, all. . Sorry for this long winded response, but I it is one of my hot buttons: . A topic which IMO, should be front and center in gospel study is Epistemology. While I have never heard a GA utter the word, several have made references to it, as does canonized scripture. Epistemology is the study of how we know what we know, or as Google defines it, epistemology is “the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion.”
. Mormonism dances all around it, for example Moroni 10:4-5, Alma 32. Additionally there are these relevant references to it:
Articles of Faith
. 13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we fhope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
D&C 88:77-80
. 77 And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.
. 78 Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;
. 79 Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—
. 80 That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you.
James E Faust, Ensign, March 2002, – 2-7
. “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. … We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation”
D&C 93:24
. Truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come.
Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-8
. Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
D&C 90:15
. Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.” (Moroni 7:8 )
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 316
. “We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons.”
Joseph Smith (HC v5p215).
. “The Latter Day Saints have no creed, but are ready to believe all true principles existing, as they are made manifest from time to time.”
Joseph Smith in a letterto Isaac Galland, Mar. 22, 1839, Liberty Jail, Liberty, Missouri, published in Times and Seasons, Feb. 1840, pp. 53–54. Quoted in Teachings of the Presidents (priesthood manual):
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h … 82620aRCRD. “Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth: consequently the shackles of superstition, bigotry, ignorance, and priestcraft, fall at once from his neck; and his eyes are opened to see the truth, and truth greatly prevails over priestcraft. …
Quoted in Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h … 82620aRCRD. “… Mormonism is truth, in other words the doctrine of the Latter-day Saints, is truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.”
Letter from Joseph Smith to Isaac Galland, Mar. 22, 1839, Liberty Jail, Liberty, Missouri, published in Times and Seasons, Feb. 1840, pp. 53–54 President George Albert Smith.
http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/When_the_Prophet_Speaks_is_the_Thinking_Done.html . “The Prophet Joseph Smith once said: “I want liberty of thinking and believing as I please.” This liberty he and his successors in the leadership of the Church have granted to every other member thereof.
Elder Uchtdorf
http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2013/01/what-is-truth?lang=eng . “We seek for truth wherever we may find it. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “Mormonism is truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or … being … prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men.”
. Yes, we do have the fullness of the everlasting gospel, but that does not mean that we know everything. In fact, one principle of the restored gospel is our belief that God “will yet reveal many great and important things.”
. … So we continually seek truth from all good books and other wholesome sources. “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.” In this manner we can resist the deceit of the evil one. In this manner we learn the truth “precept upon precept; line upon line.” And we will learn that intelligence cleaves unto intelligence, and wisdom receives wisdom, and truth embraces truth.”
Mckay, My complaint with the Essays is that I find no listing of what is available, short of clicking 26 times on their alphabetic list. My cynical twin brother would say they are attempting to make it difficult for people to find embarrassing stuff But then this would not be the first time I’ve been told I must be blind. You said there was a history section. Where is it?
That is beautiful. You develop some themes I first learned from the Givens and has become an important help for me to StayLDS. Thank you for sharing. My only concern is how orthodox members would respond to citing the Givens and Ted Talks. You have many more quotations from “official sources” so hopefully they won’t object. Let us know how it went.
