[Daughter1]

Gerald wrote:

But having grown up in a family of eight, I knew that for me personally, once married, large numbers of children would simply not work (I have five).

And to me (oldest of 3) a family of 5 kids seems huge! I think this is part of it. My best friend has 4 and I know that she and her husband have wanted 4 or 5. They aren’t sure if they’ll have another at this point. He was the oldest of two and she was the oldest of eight. He wanted a big family, she wanted a small family. The actual number they wanted was the same.

I work in banking and keep a photo of my family (parents/siblings) on my desk. The topic of kids will come up and I’m often asked if I have any. It’s amazing how many people reply with “you have plenty of time” when I say I don’t currently. Occasionally I even state “I don’t know if I ever will” and they just seem unable to process that statement as a fact, not a despairing cry for comfort. After visiting my friend recently, this topic would come up again and again. Please note, I am not in Utah so I assume most if not all of the people I speak to are not Mormon. First, amazement that she has 4 children would be expressed. Then the joke that the trip was “good practice” for when I have my own. I would try to come back with “Well, I love borrowing hers – it’s nice I don’t need my own!” only other women seemed to take that at face value. All the men hastened to reassure me that I had plenty of time to have my own.

It’s been strange to see how people react to either extreme of child-bearing. Both my expressed disinterest in having a baby and my friend’s joyful welcome to 4 little ones are looked at with confusion. Often by the same person. I think the world at large is trying to deal with the changing economic realities of families in the modern day.

[Daughter1]

Good to know… I’ve been invited to attend this meeting on Sunday. I wasn’t planning on going, and now I know what I’m missing. Also, at some point I need to take the anti-abuse training because technically I guess I’m still listed as a member of the RS presidency even though I just write the newsletters. But I support the fact that they offer a training, so I’ll get around to it.

[Daughter1]

I can shed a bit of light on why this may be. The last time we weren’t told not to shout, Utah got a couple new temples. The shouts from people from those areas almost drown out the announcement of some of the overseas temples. I didn’t really notice, but one of my friends had served in an area where a temple was being announced and wasn’t actually sure if she’d heard correctly. I haven’t listened to Saturday night yet, so I’m not sure how it was done this time, but the first “please respond with respect” came at the very session after the one I’m referencing. (Is this making sense – I’m tired). I think it started as an attempt to keep things in control so everyone could get the chance to celebrate their own temple. However, it became this broad “don’t cheer” thing instead. The request for some respect makes sense. From remarks here, it’s gotten overboard.

[Daughter1]

I’ve told people for years that I have two “quad combinations.” The LDS scriptures and my Lotr/Hobbit box set. Elder Uchtdorf just confirmed that this is perfectly acceptable.

[Daughter1]

By Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. This is the poem I ended up using in the talk that inspired this thread. The talk was about faith and hope.

Quote:

The day is cold, and dark, and dreary;

It rains, and the wind is never weary;

The vine still clings to the mouldering wall,

But at every gust the dead leaves fall,

And the day is dark and dreary.

My life is cold, and dark, and dreary;

It rains, and the wind is never weary;

My thoughts still cling to the mouldering Past,

But the hopes of youth fall thick in the blast,

And the days are dark and dreary.

Be still, sad heart! and cease repining;

Behind the clouds is the sun still shining;

Thy fate is the common fate of all,

Into each life some rain must fall,

Some days must be dark and dreary.

Gerald, thanks for adding that. I haven’t read it in years but absolutely love it. Gave me chills to read it today.

[Daughter1]

Wow! I got busy at work last month and Roy filled up the thread with so much great stuff. Thanks!

Here’s one I love. I think I only have part of the poem. I briefly got to look through a book of poems by Minnie Louise Haskins who is most known for her poem “God Knows” that was quoted by the King of England during WWII. That poem was in a book called “The Desert” and this is the titular poem from the collection and my favorite.

Quote:

Fate led me to a desert bleak and bare,

My back on light and hope, and turned my face

Towards trackless wastes – and bade me journey there

As one apart from all my kind and race.

And so I journeyed – weary and alone

With dull quiescence meeting Fate’s decree,

With hands hung limp and heart’s flesh turned to stone,

And eyes that sought in vain Love’s track to see.

The night came down upon the sandy waste,

The beasts that prowl in darkness passed me by,

God saw and sent the stars to shine in haste,

God saw and stooped Himself to catch my cry:

“I need a lonely place from men’s haunts free,

To weep,” He said, “Come, walk the plains with Me.”

Relentless night – which wraps the plains in gloom,

Relentless day – with noontide’s scorching glare,

Relentless everything which makes our doom

And gives us pain of dark or light to bear:

And so – relentless God, we cry at last,

As pitiless the scourge of life we feel,

“Keep off, Thou Infinite,” we faintly gasp,

“And give us time our lives to mend and heal.”

The dull night darkly keeps its funeral pall,

The hot day swiftly trims her burning lamp,

And Doom’s black finger grimly touches all

As time moves onward in her steady tramp;

And God – relentless – weeps upon the plain

And leaves the sand red-spotted with a stain.

The tears of God and man together flow

For what has been and what has still to be;

Man weeps because he cannot truly know,

And God because He must both know and see.

The woes of ignorance and knowledge meet;

The pangs of doubt and throes of certainty

Co-mingle in the desert air and greet

The footsteps of unfaltering destiny.

The long waste stretches widely on before,

The long waste stretches widely from behind –

God’s heart drops blood – and human feet are sore,

Hope lost – and death alone as seeming kind:

But for God’s heart no kindly death can wait,

And man with God walks on to meet his fate.

[Daughter1]

FINALLY!!

I read the newsletter/email. I shouted to my empty apartment. I came here to post my shout.

I’ve wondered ever since I was 12 why only Priesthood holders could witness. Especially when we would have to wait for there to be enough witnesses. And then again when I first did sealings. I wondered why women couldn’t help. I literally couldn’t get any of my male family names sealed to their parents because we were operating with the bare minimum number of men in the room.

I get the problems with how it’s been announced. For me personally, I don’t mind it because it was a question I had as a youth equally as much as when I grew up. But I do understand that. I think it’s a situation, for me at least, where I will just be grateful for the good and let the bad alone.

[Daughter1]

Heber13 wrote:

I wish God would speak up on this issue. I think the leaders don’t hear anything, so they just let an old rule stay as it is.

I think this is very likely. I’m also of the opinion that they have only their own experience to guide them, so there are questions they simply don’t ask to God.

[Daughter1]

This topic was on my mind as I did this week’s Come Follow Me reading. On a side note, I think the Church will have only themselves to complain if those of us really embracing this new method and studying in small groups/pairs on our own (home-based church!) start finding joy in diving deep and therefore find alternative, valid, scripturaly supported, interpretations.

1 Corinthians 8:8 reads “But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.” There have been a few discussion already in Corinthians about similar topics. It boils down to the sentiment that certain laws and rules were put in place for the benefit of the weakest among us. I would think the WoW was set for those inclined to gluttony or addiction. Those who can resist the true sin/danger that is being defended against have the power to choose to live according to their own best interests. However, they should live in such a way as to not tempt or challenge those who do not have that ability. This then led to the question of how do I determine if I should follow the “safer” way? As a child, it is wise to start there. As an adult, I know that I am not inclined to develop a caffeine addiction. I possibly have a proclivity to drug or alcohol addiction, but I’ve not tested that other than prescriptions after surgery (and based on that have no intention to go anywhere near that.) Is it pride to look at myself then and say I don’t need to follow it? I don’t have an answer, it’s just a thought.

The metaphor I came up with is weight loss. If you aren’t needing to lose weight, but a friend is, you don’t need to watch what you eat. But especially if you know they really like food, you should be supportive and not (for example) order a really rich dessert if the two of you are going out to eat. Or if they are coming over, make something healthy to share. And then you can indulge to whatever degree is healthy for you when they aren’t around.

[Daughter1]

I don’t know the exact process, but yes. The RS is in charge of dressing women for burial, the EQ is in charge of dressing men. Unless an endowed family member wants to perform the service. I was in the presidency but never was asked to assist, although we had a few sisters pass away while I was in the calling.

[Daughter1]

My signature here is a truncation of a quote from the Dalai Lama that I really love and describes my understanding of how religions relate to each other. It may offer something to you as well.

All religions share a common root, which is limitless compassion. They emphasize human improvement, love, respect for others, and compassion for the suffering of others. In so far as love i essential in every religion, we could say that love is a universal religion. But the various techniques and methods for developing love differ widely between the traditions. I don’t thin there could ever be just one singe philosophy or one single religion Since there are so many different types of people, with a range of tendencies and inclinations, it is quite fitting that there are differences between religions. and the fact that there are so many different descriptions of the religious path shows how rich religion is.

[Daughter1]

A couple thoughts from a resident “Millennial” here.

First, a reminder I like to offer when people start categorizing us. The initial article referenced does specify Millennial and Gen Z. Please do not forget, in 2021, there will be 40-year-old Millennials. We aren’t exactly “young whipper snappers.” I think people imagine young 20-somethings and don’t acknowledge the older end of the generation. And along with this is the statement that these thoughts are for me, and what I have observed from my peers. I have seen other Millennials interacting online who do not fit my views as closely.

A lot of what comes with being a Millennial is the realization that life isn’t what we expected it to be. Dissatisfaction and the interest in perusing a “better version of yourself” stems from this, and it has an impact on the approach to church. When we express this, older generations peg us as whining, but I argue that we simply have to live in a world that is different than the one we were raised to. Our parents and teachers didn’t know how to prepare us for the world of social media and the internet, because these things didn’t exist. They didn’t know how to prepare us for a world in which housing costs are significantly more than the historic 25% of annual income – the “industry guidance” has even changed up to 30% in the last year or two!! And as we learn to adapt to this changing world, we are being held up (especially in church) to an outdated standard.

I’m turning 30 this year. I do not own a home. I am not married. I don’t even really date currently. And I feel like I’m not progressing, because I have been taught to measure progress against traditional steps that are not happening for me. When I started to come to terms with this, I also became more comfortable not going to every lesson at church. Because I started to see “my best life” in terms that aren’t recognized by the church. Many people can and do rectify these measurements of success and find comfort and a place in the church. Many do not. This disconnect and dissonance between the expectation we were raised to and the reality of our lives and our own developed desires impacts every element of our social network. The church is trying to mitigate these gaps as best they can, but it is something prior generations have not felt amplified in the same way (due to social media), so it is an immense challenge. I appreciate what they are doing to try. That doesn’t mean it’s solved everything yet, but I – and many other Millennials – do appreciate the effort of someone trying to help us rectify our shattered expectations.

Now, because the way in which our life is not what we expected differs, that is where you find more varieties in the trends. I am very fortunate in my financial life due to the great start my parents gave me and my own hard work and caution. Socially, not so much. I have no close friends living in the same state as me, forget about anything romantic, and I only get to spend time with my family when someone gets on an airplane. So my concerns and places of stubbornness and “Millennialness” will be different than my friends who choose to live at home to avoid the outrageous price of rent or to save for something longer-term. As will my weaknesses and strengths.

mom3 wrote:

The thing I envy most about Millennial’s is their ability to be unfazed. I love the freedom of guilt they have. I can see concern for that freedom but I think more of them aren’t as burdened as post war people are.

This also comes back to how we were raised, I think. We were told we control our feelings. If the bully hit you, choose to not be angry. If that person teased you, choose to try to be friends. If you messed up at the thing, choose to be motivated by the challenge. So, when faced with what appears to be the impossible task of living an outdated lifestyle in order to gain “success” in the eyes of those you look up to, we have chosen not to internalize guilt or shame. I made a goal in high school, sometime during a lesson about choosing how we react to things. I promised myself I would “live for no regrets.” I have chosen to forgive myself of mistakes I have made and no longer regret them. If I am having trouble letting something go and I can do something to change it, I do. As of today, I have one minor regret collected on a recent trip, but I’ve already started talking to myself and thinking through the forgiveness. (Silly thing – didn’t buy a piece of art I really wish I had to hang up now.) Soon, I won’t harbor any regrets. All the people who taught us to choose our reactions could learn to do this too. I am glad I was taught this lesson. The more I internalize it, the less I hesitate in living life to the fullest.

Now, saying that anything about Millennials stems from our upbringing is not in any way an attempt to shift blame. I’ve seen that, and I don’t think it’s helpful. But analyzing where the mindset comes from is helpful in developing a way forward, imo.

Wow… I go silent here and then just word dump. I’m grateful to all of you who actually read what I say here. Thanks!

[Daughter1]

AmyJ wrote:

Happy to…

CAVEAT: I like doing this activity because a) it gives me social cover (even though I don’t think the work is necessary), b) it is helping people out who like family history, c) it is free in terms of financial cost, d) the kids can run around, e) I feel useful, and f) no crowds to worry about.

Thanks! I want to do this because a) social cover as well , b) I have looked through enough cemeteries without trying to create temple files that I know they can be confusing for people who are doing any sort of research, c) I like getting outside and walking and need new places and reasons to go sometimes. I’ll definitely be doing this over the summer.

[Daughter1]

I skipped church to go to the farmer’s market. On the way back, I saw that the neighboring Episcopal Church was having an after-worship luncheon with a bouncy castle and a sno-cone truck. I considered stopping by. They provided some very needed support last summer at a time when I needed it, and I felt the spirit while visiting. And they have sno-cones.

AmyJ wrote:

But a sister in my branch and I take our kids to the cemetery to work on the billion graves project and talk – so there was ministering and family history going on.

Can you tell me more about this? I visited several cemeteries recently and was thinking that I would like to help catalog them somehow.

[Daughter1]

I used to get very upset by this, and it still can frustrate me. But over time, I came to realize that, as Jedi said, even in context most scriptures are open to multiple interpretations. What I still get frustrated on is when the ambiguity comes from the selected English translation. This is not the fault of the people quoting (or mis-quoting), but when they go on at length about something they haven’t researched, then they annoy me.

The most striking recent example was the conference talk from last year about “certain” men and women in the New Testament. And how they were confident in their choice because “certain” means they knew what they were talking about and doing.

….

Nope. That’s a double meaning of the English term “certain” that doesn’t come from the original text. I had a professor at BYU who explained that a series of parables (starting with the Good Samaritan) are tied together by the use of this term that notates a person of particular note. It shows who we should pay attention to, and she interpreted the repeated use between parables as an indication that the parables and stories were to be read together to answer the question “What shall I do to achieve eternal life?” Using this interpretation, the story of Martha and Mary is part of the answer right along with the parable of the Samaritan.

Now, is her interpretation 100% verifiably correct? No. Is her interpretation based on the original writing as best as we can determine in modern times? Yes. It frustrates me when we treat the King James as the Adamic tongue. Jesus didn’t speak English. He spoke Hebrew. And the same goes for the Book of Mormon. Only the D&C is cleared from this because it was composed so recently, relatively speaking. But every year puts it more in risk of the same dangers.

I’m all for taking things in a modern context. I just think that we should first find the intent of what was being said and apply that intent to our modern days.

When it comes to Come Follow Me, I have yet to attend a single Sunday School lesson. I haven’t actually been to Sunday School in several years – it’s never been my favorite. Instead, my sister and I do the reading and discuss every week. I have a beautiful companion book that talks about the world of the NT. It goes over cultural topics that are relevant to the stories. It explains the society of the time. My sister is an anthropologist and between the two of us, when something is unclear, we always try to put it in a contemporary context before taking the lessons from that to apply to our own lives.

Sorry this was a bit sideways of the primary topic. But the frustrations have been interlinked for me, so I’m guessing I’m not alone on that.

[Author]

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