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Kipper – I feel the same way about the phrase “endure to the end.” I apologize that this went a little long. I tried to keep it on point (and cut out several more distracting tangents then are still here). I hope that my intent to relate comes across. Before I explain my comparison to your feelings, I want to note where I differ slightly. I personally feel that I have been greatly blessed by God. I see His hand in my life in many places. I don’t see many direct answers to prayers, but I do see circumstances lining up in a way that is very fortunate. Because I know God loves me, I choose to believe that He influenced things to allow those things to line up. So while I don’t feel like I get “answers” very often, I do believe God hears my prayers and concerns and takes them into account on the occasions when He choses to get involved. But I don’t feel His involvement is ever major or direct. More of a nudge for me to read a certain article, talk to a certain person, etc.
I hope that gives some context to my own frustrations on this topic. I personally do not care if a prayer isn’t answered right away or next week. I do believe God is paying attention and will give me the blessings that will most impactful in bringing joy to my life. But, as several others have said, I also believe that in order for Him to be able to bless me, I have to be doing what is in my power. This frustrates me when I hear people in the church say “if you’re praying, fasting, yahda yahda seminary list, and still not getting an answer, just endure.” How long do I have to endure? What if there are ways that I can progress if I change up the script just a little bit?
If I had “endured” in the challenges presented to me in my hometown after graduating college, I would likely hold an unfulfilling job (if any), be married to a man who has very little career progression opportunities, and be content but not happy. Instead, I chose to move away and with very little direct intervention from God (I do believe that He directly influenced my choice of destination) made that plan happen. I hate the phrase “tell God your plans and He will laugh.” In my life, I have found that nothing really happens unless I’m working on it. And occasionally, for not always obvious reasons, God will step in with a little nudge.
My life now is much better than it was before I moved to Denver. I am so glad I am here. But the “endure to the end” statement still comes up. I left the singles ward a few years early because I did everything I was supposed to (going “above and beyond to ask guys on dates – I was literally praised by my bishop for this) and all that happened was I became more mature than everyone around me. I have now skipped more church than I have attended this year because I have had unanswered questions for several years and after doing everything and never receiving a satisfying answer, I have been told to “endure” to gain my testimony. In my experience, enduring alone leads to stagnation. Enduring while trying to find my way forward works better.
Beach, I wasn’t emotionally impacted by the POX or its reversal as many others here. But I do relate to the feeling that you don’t belong and there is no one who really understands. In my life, my mom, my dad, and one of my closest friends have all gone through a faith transition. Each one has a different approach to it, a different reaction to it, and a different set of catalysts. Mine is unique as well. And I feel frustration and isolation when I realize that whether I’m talking to someone fully orthodox, someone who has experienced a faith crisis, or someone who isn’t a member, I cannot fully express what I am feeling. I’m learning that it’s ok. I’m learning to cherish that my feelings are things only God and Christ will ever comprehend accurately. And that is how I manage to come back. After my realization that I wasn’t going to receive the promised witness of the BoM, I felt a bit betrayed. My prayers have become less consistent. But whenever I kneel to pray, I am reminded that God does know how I feel. And He is the only one who does. So I will always return to prayer.
God knows how you feel. I don’t, and I’m sorry I cannot empathize fully. But He can. Your pain, both at the inception and reversal of the policy are things He knows.
I am digging up an old thread mostly because I have thoughts I want to share and want to get other’s insights on that are related. I will also admit, I only read bits and pieces, not the entire thread. My dad has told me how much all women hate garments because they were designed by men with no regard to women. I have yet to point out to him the irony of his telling me how much I should hate garments because “old white men shouldn’t be dictating young single women’s underwear.” But I loved garments the second time I put them on. I hated the first time because I took everyone’s advice of “Carinnessa is the best!” even though I know I hate that sort of material usually. As soon as my first temple experience was done, I went and bought several sets of cotton and have been happy ever since.
Most of the common complaints weren’t an issue for me, once I’d settled on cotton and silky. For example, I always thought my shoulders were too broad, so I never wanted to go sleeveless. Cap sleeves weren’t an issue. My garments, when worn under my bra, actually allow for a lot more cleavage to show than I was ever allowed as a YW. And the bottoms are basically pure magic. I don’t have that illusive thigh gap, but enjoy wearing skirts. It’s much more comfortable to walk in skirts with something on my upper thighs. I also love, as several others stated, not having the elastic leg holes or panty lines.
And “happy ever since” has lasted until recently. While I never suffered from an eating disorder, I have had an unhealthy relationship with food for many years and poor body image. It has been improving consistently for about the last 8 or so years – since about halfway through college. I have recently been putting a lot of extra effort into making significant and lasting improvements to my health. I have also been progressing in Taekwondo (I’m a black belt, and, as is obvious, will work that in anywhere I can possibly fit it). This had led to me liking my body in new styles and clothes. I really like how I look in a sports bra and tank top. Like, love that look. I enjoy shirts with wider collars and lower backs. And many of the slimmer clothes I prefer work best with silky garments, but silky garments cause me to itch if I exert myself while wearing them. If I’m just at work, this is no issue. But going out to walk around the city is more of a problem.
I have never worked out in garments, and recently I’ve decided I want to really like the underwear I have for workouts. And this ties back to “men design garments” point because men also design secular underwear for women. I want undies that come down my thigh. I can’t find them in stores. Instead I can find thongs and sexy little things. Which are fine and fun and cute. But I can see in many of those as much influence of the male perspective as I can in garments any day. I just want to feel good in every circumstance. And I’m trying to navigate what places I consider wearing of garments non-important. I like them for general everyday use. But sometimes, I would prefer something less restrictive. And I’m having trouble finding secular replacements that give me some of the same (purely physical) benefits I find in my garments – especially the bottoms.
I don’t think I really have a question. I just really wanted to express my thoughts on the matter. What I have read of the thread has reminded me it’s not all or nothing. I can find some normal undies that work for me and wear them when I want and still wear garments for activities where I feel they are able to be worn with proper respect and sufficient comfort. It’s been tough thinking things through because so much of the church is framed in a false dichotomy: either I’m wearing garments 24/7 or I have abandoned wearing garments at all. I am finding a middle way. As with all things.
I’m very glad President Nelson told people not to shout about the temple announcements. As exciting as it is, I feel bad for the people who are excited about a temple that doesn’t get a shout. And it’s just not the right time or place. That said, I think Budapest, Hungary is super exciting.
Elder Bednar is doing a really good job of not treating discussion of the temple with fear and secrecy. I really love this. I have loved Elder Gong since he was called. This talk was special because he quoted “Dear to the Heart of the Shepherd” which is a song my grandma loved. Old Timer wrote:
I appreciate, also, the obvious love he feels, even though I disagree with some of his conclusions.
I feel great love for President Nelson. I know he can often run quickly and be a bit tone deaf, but I think you’ve hit the nail on the head as to why I love him and don’t feel anxiety when he speaks (as opposed to others, like Oaks). He really loves God, the church, and each of the members. Today I felt reminded that our leaders really do believe. Sometimes, when I am feeling cynical, I forget that they lead this church in faith. That they are men and women who have lived their lives trying to come close to God, and that the advice and council they give is sincere and from a place of love. President Nelson especially helps me feel this.
One little detail I liked, he will address the sisters first as often as he addresses the men first. I’ve heard others try this and it always sounds forced, like they are trying really hard to make women feel equal. I appreciate the effort, but I feel awkward. President Nelson makes it feel natural, loving, and pure. In the preface to the updated temple video, the changes were made “for the benefit of the daughters and sons of God” and I was just thrilled to know that we were thought of first. I thought then, and am more certain now, that President Nelson selected that phrasing. The love I feel is so special and soothing.
This session helped me feel peace and love. These are the things I love about the LDS church.
Curt, I agree. Both talks were wonderful. Sister Eubanks’s especially. I love in particular that she talks about coming close to Christ. There was no discussion of “activity” in the church. Not explicitly so, at least. She made it clear that drawing close to Jesus is the important part and that church involvement can be a support to that, but the connection and divine love of Christ is the core of the process. It was really beautiful. I’m looking forward to re-reading it once the transcript is up. I’m always nervous when he speaks. I either love it or am miserable. He sometimes feels like a bully. Today he talked so much about Jesus and love that I was very happy listening to the talk. It was a good one, imo. DarkJedi wrote:
I will also add that I really like the BYU choir. They’ve done a great job.
I agree!
At least Elder Anderson admitted that he “might not understand” the circumstances of people who didn’t get to live the perfect Mormon life. As a single woman, I don’t want to hear him quote a single woman. I want to hear from a single woman who is in the church. It took me years to get some of my closest friends to realized just how little they comprehend what life for a single Mormon woman looks like. There’s no way a married man in Utah can understand me on a level where he won’t manage to minimize how deeply this impacts my worldview. I’m not saying it’s impossible to have that conversation in a positive way. I just know it’s very difficult. Can I hear from a single woman please? ETA: Even better. Can I hear from a single woman who doesn’t really want a baby? I don’t want the “I’m sad I don’t have the opportunity to be a mother, but this is how I am living without a baby!” I’ve heard that a lot. I just want to hear about life as a single, faithful, female member. Without feeling like something is lacking because that description starts with “single.”
It’s been a while since we’ve been reminded to keep our testimonies to testimony. ETA: Still lots of missionary stories. And no major “revelation bombs.” Which is good. I think it’s ok to let GC stay just a place to hear guidance and wisdom from official leads.
I shared in my introduction that I find my family more of a shelter, more of a support, and more of a place to openly share my fears and concerns now that we aren’t all active, traditional members than I ever felt when we were. So I would say that the family who embraces the love the Christ exhibited stay close, no matter where they are. Also – this conference is a lot about missionaries. I always feel like each session has a theme. And that one seems to stand out. I haven’t ever felt like sharing my faith much. It probably came from growing up with evangelical friends. I saw when proselyting goes to far. I saw discrimination. I saw that I was a better example if I was just myself and not a Mormon. And now I believe everyone has a unique path home to God. And my form of missionary work is encouraging everyone to find their path and draw close to God. I really don’t care of that’s the Mormon path, the Hindu path, the Muslim path, the secular path, or anything else. As long as the path is lined with love and brings someone closer to God, I am happy to support them.
