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I have to be one of the few when the next struggler comes through, to let them see there are some who are sensitive to the struggler and his issues. If you followed my podcast thread and Grace thread in the last couple days on MDD, which it seems you have, you can easily pick those out who want to fight rather then help. My problem is I fight back, can’t just take it. They think they are God’s modern danites called to purify the church and do not realize they cause so much pain, hurt, and cause every struggler to feel worse….
I also love when I requote them, and other LDS line up to disagree with them they say “you misrepresented what I was saying” when I posted their whole statement unaltered. That same individual is who brings up my spelling and he has done that before as that seems to how he decides who to take seriously or not. Darn me for being a two finger pluck typer…
regarding my recent podcast you listened too. I too felt there was too much sermon but felt it would not be honest and objective if I picked and choose what the listener heard rather then let them hear his whole program. I didn’t want to be accused of taking him out of context or leaving an important part out.
I think you’ll find more of me talking in the other two parts as he gets into the meat of his issues.
I would love to talk to Don, How would I get a hold of him? He would be an awesome interview on several fronts Journey out then back in, his paper on the kinderhook plates, his thinking through issues….
Apostate (as defined within the church) – One who intentionally trying to counter the effort/teachings of the brethren or the doctrine of the Church. I would extend this definition further by saying one is trying to cause others to have less belief in the restored gospel or this church. Personally I have been apostate a time or two in my life though tryng to minimize those outbursts. i think the movie issue is that PG-13 movies and even some PG movies are now innapropriate. there is no outward label that can be given as safe also for the record, some here “help” by saying it is ok to not believe the tenants of the church. If I may offer my brand of “help” in my way… I want you to know I firmly think the Book of Mormon is as you hope True, Historical, factual, and living. Rather then change your perception of the Book of Mormon to fit your view of Prophets you also have the option to change you perception of Prophets to fit your view of the Book of Mormon.
Quote:CONCLUSION
I hear that only church policies and practices change, but it’s clear that things that were clearly taught as doctrines and principles have changed. Some leaders “teach for doctrines the commandments of men” and those teachings make their way into conference talks and manuals and are accepted as doctrine. It seems that we are “like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.” Right now, I am clinging to the spiritual experiences I have had and the Book of Mormon. If I had a good explanation for the Book of Mormon not being true, then I could leave the Church right now, but I still believe in it. However, it is getting harder and harder to believe it. When I read it, I keep thinking that I am reading only “a single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion” so why should be it be considered scripture? Help!
Here is my brain at work. God told Joseph that Christianity’s creeds were an abomination to him. God doesn’t like man making decisions that limit who he is, what his limits/powers are or what his gospel contains. So while many LDS want to know all the doctrine, the secret is there is very little doctrine. go to 2nd Nephi 31 – it plainly teaches the “Doctrine of Christ” and at the end says plainly and firmly that this is all of the doctrine of Christ. Faith, repentance, Baptism, Holy Ghost, and endure to the end.
There is a kicker though in chapter 32 verse 6 Nephi tells us he made a mistake, that their actually would be more added to the doctrine of Christ once the Savior came in the flesh. I believe in my opinion this is temple ordinances.
Now seeing the Doctrine is a small group of things it helps us better understand Elder Bruce R. McConkie’s comment that
“Some unstable people become cranks with reference to this law of health. It should be understood that the Word of Wisdom is not the gospel, and the gospel is not the Word of Wisdom” The word of Wisdom is an appendage to the gospel.
So we want lots spelled out, and while some leaders try to do that (Elder McConkie, Elder Joseph Fielding Smith) they overstep their bounds by declaring doctrine in areas where revelation has not been received to support that.
It has happened in other dispensations as well. Jeremiah had a failed prophecy, indications the world is flat, earth doesn’t move in it’s orbit, ect… In other words Prophets have always shared their opinions at times and been wrong. Evolution in this dispensation, Paul’s discussing the role of women in the new testament, ect…
We have to let these men not be perfect in what they say or holding them to an unrealistic standard they will always fail.
It was a hard lesson for me to learn…. finally sunk in
my wife is like that too…. when I show her she is wrong she says whatever and changes the subject. I see a pattern. lol just kidding but couldn’t resist I too struggle with the temple. I feel awkward and anxious to keep up with others as you change things in the ceremony. I struggle with endowments the most. What I ahve found is benefiscial to me is to find an ordinance or two that I like. For me, Baptisms for the dead and iniatories are spiritual and enjoyable. So when I go, I participate in these two. It has allowed me to bless my kindred dead and feel the spirit of the temple without the struggles that I feel in sealings or endowments. Just some thoughts
You will like this one I think. I have added some of my favorite parables and stories from my favorite talks and have placed them here for you to hear. This one is different then the others so I would appreciate feedback? Also what do you think of theme song as I think it connects to Faith Crisis and Resolve very well?
http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/ http://www.facebook.com/LDSLeadership 28 minutes long and it captures moments from the following talks
Stephen Robinson – Believing Christ
Elder Holland – Safety for the Soul
Dale Sturm – Faith is a Decision
Brad Wilcox – His Grace is Suffcient
Elder Hollnad- The Only True God
Try to be more positive. Give them a chance and give them the benefit of the doubt. If I were your bishop, as long as your not breaking any commandments, you would be welcomed into full fellowship and SSA wouldn’t mean a thing. You want people to be receptive of you, that goes both ways. Heber13 wrote:
Do you agree that there is no smoking gun on either side of the argument? You can’t prove it true, and you can’t prove it false. You can just choose to believe or not. Agree?Agreed. I also think while critics use occam’s razor to prove the church false, I also think you do the same with the coincidences and evidences that seem to imply something other then a fraud is going on.
At the end of the day….. faith… a desire to believe
MDD = Mormon Dialogue and Discussion board or http://www.mormondialogue.org/ Quote:i think that is partly why i have chosen not to bother with LDS church participation – i just don’t like a judgemental social atmosphere. I loved my past spiritual connections with the LDS church but i sure hated the lack of warmth i’d sometimes get from members or leaders who, for whatever reason, chose to look down on me.
While the board is very frustrating and painful for me, my ward is the exact opposite. In other words the behavior of the MDD board doesn’t make me want to abandon the church as my Ward is the antithesis of the MDD board behavior. My ward is the best. They are mostly stage 3 but when I sporadically throw new ideas and paradigms at them they take them and wrap their arms around them.
In the past two years we have discussed seer stones, treasure digging (scrying), false doctrine taught by prophets and apostles, stages of faith, ect….
If members build trust with someone they know is concerned about them and looking out for them and won’t lead them astray intentionally, they will hear and reason out what your saying.
My spiritual testimony and My ward drives me to want to be at church each and every week. Church for me is fun, initiates growth, and last but not least is a place where I feel really close to God.
My latest podcast is up at mormondiscussion.podbean.com also started a thread at
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3545 where I need help with the podcast
