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You know, I really truly used to believe in this whole heartedly. Just a few years ago I would have said that “yes, of course they have seen Him!” However, as can be the case with a crisis of faith, there are some things you just can’t really believe anymore. For me, this is one of them. I think they may see Him in the idea that perhaps they (and we all) see Him when we see others who are displaying Christ-like attributes. I guess these days, I would say they have not literally seen Jesus. I believe that, at least historically, it is a requirement to have seen Him. That is why Matthias and Paul were able to be called as Apostles. They were witnesses of His actual ministry and/or resurrection.
Finally, I would say that yes, it is probably more symbolic than anything else.
Well said! I especially like Quote:God does not expect us to walk “perfectly”, nor does he expect us to walk without stumbling and falling and getting skinned up in the process. He simply asks us to avoid those things of which he would disapprove “strongly” or “vehemently”.
I’m having a rather hard time trying to explain my feelings on this one. We have scripture and doctrine, and our adherence to them implies certain things, such as a high moral code, keeping good company, or “clean living.” Or baptism’s outward expression of an inward commitment. What we do often implies what we value or believe.
However, it seems like a lot of times we do things as an outward expression only. For instance, there are many in my family who are (mostly) good Sunday Mormons, but the rest of the week you might have no idea just what it is they
dovalue or believe. I’m guilty of this in a lot of ways. But I’m trying! doubtingmom: Exactly! I don’t mind when a talk is used as a sort of guideline or is briefly quoted but verbatim talks just don’t do it for me. You’re right, mercyngrace. Quote:Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. – Galatians 3:24-28
I agree with your opinions on this, and for the most part, this passage of scripture sums it up for me.
I don’t generally have a problem with doing “service” when called by the Church but for me the best kind of service is that which I give to someone simply because I love them and care about them genuinely. Best friend and total stranger alike. I agree with Brown. Not everyone will benefit from the same amount of direction. For some of us there is too much and for others, too little. Andrew: I also had the early church experiences in mind when thinking of this. You’re right about not necessarily needing a rock band but it would be nice to see other instruments from musically-inclined members being used and encouraged. I like getting dressed up for Church as well. I’m not saying I’d go super casual but I wouldn’t mind wearing something elsefor a change. SilentDawning: I believe you are correct about the old-timers. I could definitely see the most resistance coming from them.
SamBee: I cannot stand listening to re-hashed conference talks. It especially becomes nauseating when they say something along the lines of “I was asked to give a talk on so and so’s Conference talk” or “I was asked to speak on this topic and was given two talks from so and so to use.” I tune out almost immediately upon hearing that.
Quote:Romans 5:8 “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
I’ve always kind of had a problem with the idea that sexual sin is next to murder. Or really even the idea that one sin outweighs another in seriousness. This kind of teaching, I think, tends to create a hierarchy of sins, as was previously mentioned, but also tends to promote a self-righteous and/or judgmental attitude toward others. “Oh, well at least I’ve never committed such and such a sin,” and so on. I’ve always taken James 2:10 (For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all) to mean that no sin outweighs another. If you’ve sinned, you’ve sinned, so go and do whatever you can to make it right.
Besides, isn’t the only unforgivable sin blaspheming the Holy Ghost?
I absolutely believe in the idea of demon possession but I also tend to believe in the idea that the devil/darkness/demons will never have more power over you than you allow them to have. Old-Timer wrote:As long as he’s not saying, “Confess and be saved and you can sin all you want,” (and I certainly don’t get that message from these quotes or others I’ve heard from him) I’m fine with however he wants to word it.
I don’t know of anyone who honestly believes that. If you were saved, and you knew it, is that how you would think the Almighty? Besides, Paul already addressed this in Romans when talking about whether or not we should sin, so that grace may abound. I believe his words were “God Forbid!”
Nathan wrote:Progressively, Latter-day Saints appropriate conservative evangelical terminology in efforts, both conscious and non conscious, to counter claims Latter-day Saints are not Christian, rely on their works, etc., etc. To a large degree this appropriation is inauthentic or reactionary rather than truly responsive. In understanding the doctrine of Grace, Latter-day Saints need look no further than the Book of Mormon for the most definitive passage in all scripture: “Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God,
that is is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved” (2 Nephi 10:24). The question of the role of Grace can be summarized with this question: “What is God’s role in the life of a believer? Is God a distant observer, a casual participant, and cheerleader, or the source of strength, wisdom, humility, and love of all those who obey?” There are vast differences between what Joseph Smith and the preachers of his day taught–but they usually aren’t the differences we expect (such as this).
Next Sunday I will preach at the Protestant service on post, and my family (we normally worship together) will attend LDS services off post. Our five-year-old is giving a talk; he was assigned the topic: “Jesus is a God of miracles.” The first exemplifies the Church’s desire to be viewed as a partner within Christianity (to an extent, anyway) as well as my own, and the second exemplifies the shift in technical language in the Church: increasingly more Christological. It’s not just Glen Beck.
History is replete with examples of the minority attempting to legitimize its faith in the context of the older, larger society. Philo attempts to portray Moses as a former-day Plato; Paul tries to package the good news of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection in terms of Stoicism. Early Sikhs, Baha`i, and even Buddhists made similar attempts to appear/become normative. As I see it, Glen Beck is as guilty as the rest of us who want to belong.
2 Nephi 25:23
For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
It’s the above passage I see most commonly used to justify the idea of your works, then God’s grace. I do appreciate your comments!
