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dande48 wrote:
… “The cold never bothered me anyway.”
NOOOOOO! I finally got that song out of my head after three years of non-stop insanity! And it’s coming back!!
I can’t say how much I’ve appreciated everyone’s comments about this. I’m feeling so much love for all of you in this community on this Easter Sunday. And if that sounds sappy coming from someone who doubts more than he believes, too bad. I am grateful to have found this community and for the soft landing it has provided and hopefully will continue to provide – wherever my faith journey ends up taking me.
Old Timer wrote:
For those who feel they must leave, we hope to help ease the pain and help keep them from turning into classic anti-Mormons. If they can’t stay, we hope to help them let go of the bitterness and find peace.
Thanks Curt. I really appreciate the purpose of this site. And I certainly don’t feel like I must leave at this point, but I wonder where I’ll be in 5 years (I have no idea) and what the best way for me to get there is. Certainly staying is the path of least resistance for me at this point, and I can’t reiterate enough how helpful this site has been in making staying more meaningful and enjoyable. I have at least reached a point where I genuinely feel at peace with my current beliefs, but now the future seems more uncertain – both exciting and scary. Thanks for the support.
nibbler wrote:
I feel similarly. I’ve taken to exploring my own spirituality and meaning of life but remain fully engaged with the church. It can be hard in the LDS church because we have a culture of rigidly defined beliefs which may condition us to believe that is the way things are supposed to operate, even after a transition. I’m finding that I can still engage the church free of constraints and free to explore. To some degree the constraints are all in my mind, to another degree I believe that others at church may have an expectation that people believe a certain way.I’m also finding that I care more about actions than beliefs. I’d prefer the person that doesn’t believe as I do that helps me when I’m down than a person that believes as I do that does nothing… so that’s what I try to be for others. That person that may not believe inside the constraints but will help out when needed.
I also relate to this. I can continue to explore my own spirituality as long as I feel the church isn’t hindering that process. That said, if I were to completely leave at this point, I’d miss the community for sure, and it would probably cause too much marital discord to be worth it. It’s a classic benefits/risks scenario and the benefits of staying outweigh the risks of leaving.
It’s also hard to feel like my desires are wavering so much. Today I might feel like I should just walk away, “rip off the band-aid” and let the consequences fall where they may. Then tomorrow I’ll attend church with my family and think ok, this isn’t too bad. There’s a good community here of good people, and I can make this work for me even if I believe differently. It’s hard to be flipping back and forth, but hopefully some of you have felt those emotions during your faith transitions as well. How did you deal with that constant flux and did it ever go away or just get easier to deal with?
Quote:Let it hurt.
Let it bleed.
Let it heal.
Let it go.
I’ve found that sometimes I have to switch the last two. I need to let it go before it can properly heal. And the letting it go seems to be the biggest hurdle for me at times. I’ve also found that in those moments where I feel at peace and feel that increase of love for myself and my fellow man – it is in those moments where I can truly let something go and let the healing process begin.
So to sum it up, love truly does conquer all if we allow it to.
Thanks for the quote.
We have a special stake conference this Sunday for Easter, but the following week I’m going to introduce some of these ideas when I hand out new assignments. By requirement from the SP, everyone in the ward list needs to be assigned a HT, which is turning into a ridiculous charade since many on the list don’t even live in the ward boundaries or have no phone number listed or have asked not to be contacted, etc. But I think we can incorporate some of these ideas to make HT more meaningful and productive. I’m actually getting a little excited to talk about it and usually I dread beating that dead drum again! (How long until they release me as EQP?)
You have my vote. Maybe I’ll try to implement some of these excellent ideas into my quorum. Hopefully I don’t ruffle too many feathers of the higher ups, but then, as long as I do what I think is best I don’t really care. Thanks for your insights.
I don’t know if this will help or not, but I just got back from a visit that I took my 9 year old son to with me. It was completely casual (I was wearing a baseball cap), and this was a visit to a convert of 2 years who still struggles with testimony and church attendance. We just talked about life and experiences, I discussed how I have doubts, questions, and don’t believe everything literally without going into specifics. I pulled out Elder Holland’s talk about being in the choir and how we each have our own unique voices and that there’s room for us all. Even my son quipped in with the analogy even though he wasn’t paying much attention to most of our discussion. Overall I tried to just share a message of love and how there’s room for everyone in the choir, and more importantly, that the choir is better because of the diverse voices present. I also talked to him about how I probably wouldn’t be visiting every month (which he was grateful for), but that I was available if he needed someone to talk to about anything in the church or service, etc. I’ll probably try and visit in his home maybe in a few months unless it seems like it needs to be done sooner. But this visit is how I want my visits with other families to go from now on. I’m not a formal guy – so I’m not going to dress up. I’m going to keep things casual, express love and acceptance, and let them know I can be a support or a sounding board if they want or need it. And I’m not going to emphasize going every month because I really don’t think that’s important for almost everyone, with a few exceptions of those who really want or need regular visits.
I hope my son got something out of that visit. It was pretty short, but he seemed to enjoy being there with me.
Quote:The people for whom Mormonism “works” are somewhat less likely/motivated to start asking the questions that will lead them out the door, but sometimes they do. Such people are often inclined to construct a more nuanced faith — perhaps pick an alternate definition of “true” — in order to continue in the Mormon community and lifestyle they value.
I can definitely see fruits of the church that make me grateful I was raised in it, but I see these fruits as being available in other faith traditions as well. As I progress in my own faith transition, I realize I’m leaning more and more towards the church isn’t true, at least not in the literal sense I was taught to believe. I don’t feel particularly inclined to develop a nuanced faith or try on a different definition of “true” either. Essentially, I stay for now for the community and some of the fruits, but mostly for social reasons. I believe I could also find these fruits elsewhere.
I’ve heard this said before but don’t know where it comes from. “What’s good in the church is not unique. What’s unique in the church is not good.” And while I don’t completely agree with that sentiment, I do believe it deserves some consideration.
At least the essays now add an interesting pool of “approved” topics. I just wish we could have a series of GD lessons just on the essays. That would certainly stimulate a lot more interesting discussion. They’ve been out since 2014 (right?) and still that hasn’t happened yet. Disappointing. The whole thing is ridiculous. If I were you I would just toss my hands up in the air and say forget it. And I would be pissed. Really really pissed that they offered your services and gave your personal cell phone number without asking you first. It’s almost like they are forcing home teaching by going around you to go directly to the families and giving them your information.
All I can say is wow.
And thanks – as a current EQP, I can be sure NOT to do this in my quorum!
So sorry you had to go through that discussion. I want to reiterate what has been said that her gut reaction is certainly built on fear and also out of love for you. I have come to find that those with a true believing fundamentalist mindset have a really hard time even comprehending how someone could simply have honest and rational doubts without it being tied to some sin or shortfall. I believe that idea is slowly being changed within, but there is still a strong stigma. I don’t have any good advice to offer other than be patient and loving. Once she realizes that this is not born out of a desire to be rebellious, but simply you are having honest and rational doubts, hopefully her tone will change. Good luck! There have definitely been different schools of thought on this. I remember way back when reading Skousen’s “The First Thousand Years.” His literalistic approach is contrarian to my views now, but I remember he was of the opinion in that book that relatively few will be saved in the end. I’ve always favored a more merciful approach from a truly loving God. Do you think that the idea that almost all will be saved could be framed within the idea of nearly everyone will receive a degree of glory, even if not the top most tier of the celestial kingdom? And that’s assuming that you believe literally in the three degrees of glory concept of an afterlife, of which I tend to take more metaphorical than literal anyway.
Nibbler, I would definitely not say I’ve got it figured out, but thanks for the vote of confidence! I think I could enjoy this process a lot more and even take it a little light heartedly (which is more my nature anyway) if I didn’t feel so much outside pressure, specifically related to family. But I am trying to enjoy it as much as possible. Some days are better than others. I like how Mom3 referred to the “gift” of having a faith transition. I suspect we’re seeing more of what an Uchtdorf or Eyring led church looks like, assuming the first presidency takes the reins when the president is ailing
