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From Joseph Campbell’s The Power of Myth…
Quote:
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck to its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble.
To me, hearing “I know the church is true” has become to me synonymous to hearing “I know the principles underlying the gospel are true.”mackay11 wrote:
Priesthood just annoyed me. JSF wrote a letter in 1948 to his son saying he had never had a vision of the Lord. But the teacher and class members kept referring to it as “at this stage he hadn’t seen him” or “this was before he was prophet and he hadn’t seen the Lord yet”….Since we’re all sharing, I’ll go next!
Then in priesthood the lesson went the same direction as MacKay’s, with the caveat that our quorum started with the assumption that JFS was NOT an apostle when he made the statement. I had to look up the date to add any weight to my view that being an Apostle does NOT require the ministration of JC.
Sigh…
Just listened to a mormom matter’s episode that talked about this not too long ago. http://mormonmatters.org/2013/10/01/194-197-genesis-part-1-creation-garden-expulsion-cursing/ @ihhi funny…I was also teaching deacons when I started having too much cognitive dissonance to continue teaching and asked to be released. My advice echoes that already said. Be vague and refuse to go into details. Absolutely don’t get into a debate or bring up issues. When I had asked to be released I also was asked to speak with the bishop. He kept asking what issues, and I replied vaguely “there’s not just one, just a bunch of small things I need to work trough.” I refused to go into detail. I did tell him that I had always had certainty about many things and now I felt uncertain. I told him I was just learning to be comfortable with uncertainty.
In retrospect I’m really glad I didn’t go into detail. Had I voiced some of the concerns I had then, I would have shaped his opinion of me in a very negative way. Several months later I felt okay teaching again. Now I love it. Gives me the opportunity to bring my unique perspective to the group while at the same time avoiding a boring lesson.
So just keep in mind that your perspective will continue to change. But whatever you reveal to others will likely persist in their mind long after it has left yours.
Welcome! Sometimes the “indoctrination” bugs me too. Our ward has a problem where fast sunday all the kidos go up and testify of the things they “know” (as their parent whispers in their ear). On the bright side I have an opportunity to increase my will power and patience. I agree with Ray on this. I like a few of Rock’s posts, and have even shared some with friends. Early in my faith transition I was very drawn to fundamentalist ideas. If the blame for the…complicated nature of the church…could be blamed on post JS leaders, one can still cling to mormonism at it’s roots. I even read this post on polygamy and really liked it and wanted it to be true. But further study just wouldn’t let me hold on to it. There’s just better, stronger evidence (IMO) that he did institute and practice polygamy. My views have changed (and likely will continue to change) concerning polygamy. There are other ways to come to terms with it than denying that it happened. Sounds like a wonderful woman. Thanks for sharing Ray. I have adopted much of this perspective in my dialog with others at church. I share what I can to help them not feel that pain someday that I felt by giving them more realistic expectations. mom3 wrote:…it will never be what I thought it was. For better or worse that’s the facts. There is so much about faith, religion, spirituality that is un-provable….if we choose to believe…we choose.
…the hunting, praying, waiting for the answers, is over. Not in anger or resentment, but with eyes wide open, heart turned for healing, I go on…I love prayer. I love scriptures. I love hymns. I love the idea that generations can be bound together – and no one lost. These are the spiritual hopes of my heart. Now I leave it to God to help me found their life applications.
…I am off to find my God and Father in Heaven. Casting my heart/net on the other side.
Thank you mom3 for sharing. I butchered your post in my quote to get to the essence of what resonates with me. I too struggled mightily while believing and waiting for God to give me that assurance, the 100% certainty I wanted. I too eventually let go and came to just accept that certainty is an illusion. Doing so was one of those breakthrough moments for me when my heart came into alignment with my reality.I hope peace can settle on your mind as you become still more intimate with finding God through the reality of uncertainty.
:thumbup: nibbler wrote:My faith has to evolve to rationalize remaining active in the church. Will this evolution make me become something the church would not welcome? Something or someone that the church feels better off without?
I admit, when this all went down, I was pretty upset inside. It seemed like the days of the september six were past. But alas, not every bishop and SP knows the history and therefore are doomed to repeat it.
nibbler wrote:I’m really at a point in life where I want to help others meet their own spiritual goals regardless of creed. If someone is TBM then I’d want to help them to get as much enjoyment as possible out of being TBM.
That’s a great attitude nibbler! I really like this and follow a similar ideology.Roy wrote:our entire model is somewhat built on God revealing his perfect way of doing things and our choice to either get with the program or get out of the way.
I would change this to say “our entireflawedmodel is…” I understand that for most members, God’s revelation is perfect and without flaw. But we understand this differently. That line of thinking, that model, will only remain the model so long as the majority believe it is so. The more people that understand that revelation is far from perfect and is shaped by our language, experience, etc, the more likely it is that the model will change. Being the minority voice means our message necessarily must be more subtle. Thus the more voices that remain to support a more correct (at least for us) model, the better! DarkJedi wrote:I have learned to notice what people say in things like testimonies and prayers – and what they don’t say. These things can be much more telling than one might think at first glance.
:thumbup: Me too. My wife calls it “over analyzing.” I call it attempting to see past the awkwardness of language and into the heart and mind of the speaker.
I’ll admit that I wrote this post in response to the several threads right now about leaving, staying, and the whys thereof. I admit that I am incredibly biased. While I validate that there are many paths, I prefer people travel the one I take.
mackay11 wrote:Reading “The God Who Weeps” really helped me to fall back in love with “big picture Mormonism” again.
+1
I’ll second this! I loved “The God Who Weeps” and recommend it to all of my more orthodox Mormon friends.
I don’t have anything more to add than what has been said. Stay positive and continue on! And welcome!
:wave: I took the quiz. Apparently I’m Unitarian Universalist. However I answered neutral, n/a to quite a few and even others the best answer didn’t fit. Obviously the quiz is for entertainment purposes. My faith is way to complex to be able to figure out with multiple choice questions. I’m obviously LDS….
