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To be honest, it sounds completely reasonable to have different rules for different kids becuase they all develop at different rates, but in reality that won’t work well. We followed the guidelines of dating in the FSOY as far as the age of 16 to date. We didn’t worry too much about the single vs. group dating thing about waiting unit 18. That seemed to be a bit of a stretch. I am a pretty strict parent, and my kids turned out pretty well. If my daughter wanted to go on a photo shoot with a member of the opposite sex and they were friends, I don’t think I would have had an issue, but I would have defnitely wanted to know their friend first. Honestly, there are a lot of risks when kids travel in a car somewhere together, and they aren’t just about sex.
I think it works to have a set age for dating, but I was always flexible about the details. I never had a curfew for my kids. I found when I did, they stayed out until the latest possible, even when the event was over hours before. Instead, I told them their designated time to be home based on the activity. Why let them fill their time with nothing, or have them come home before an event was over, based on a rigid curfew. The funny part about that was my daughter continued to come home around 11 pm even after she turned 18. At nearly 19 she asked why her curfew was so early, and I explained there wasn’t a curfew. She had been told to be home by 11 one time becuase the event ended about 10, and she assumed that was her curfew
😆 I never felt the need to correct her since I was perfectly content having her think she needed to be home early😆 My suggestion is to set an age for dating, and then be flexible about what is a date, and when they should be home. There is nothing wrong with having friends of the opposite sex, and they shouldn’t be penalized by that being called a date. You can always encourage her to bring along another friend and have all 3 of them hang out. It’s a lot of fun and helps reduce the risk of temptation.
Nibbler said: Quote:Come sup with me… after you change into a white shirt.
😆 True that.I guess if the good outweighs the bad we just make sure we stock up on white shirts and they are clean and pressed for Sunday.
Man in the Arena, I too have chosen silence. I simply don’t have it in me to be more public. I don’t even want to share JD info on my facebook page. Something I find truly interesting is that I found this site when a missionary that served in our ward and went home posted some info on JD on her page. I had never heard of him before and I clicked a link. I found myself here in my research, and here I have stayed, incognito
:ugeek: I believe it is safer that way. Sometimes I feel like a coward, but my family comes first.Dash, You have been very busy
:clap: I do take issue with this one from the lds.org site about what is doctrine:Quote:This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.
So this one is basically telling us the the Proclamation on the Family is now considered doctrine, yet I don’t recall it being voted on by the membership of the church and canonizing it. I can’t agree that it is the doctrine of our Heavenly Father that men are supposed to support the family and woman are supposed to stay home and do the dishes. There is a disclaimer that sometimes circumstances call for a different solution, but that quote is often left out, and those who find themselves in those circumstances far outweigh the few that are considered the “ideal”. The PF is just another document that makes us feel that we don’t quite measure up if we aren’t a TBM.
And I know that many take issue with the directive on marriage, but I confess that one makes me less irritated than the one cited above, because it isn’t as personal to me.
And Rachael, thanks for the kind words
Hawkgrrl wrote:
Quote:This is so discouraging. This is probably the worst talk ever written. I’m also not looking forward to any Benson “To the Mothers In Zion” BS.
I couldn’t agree with you more. No “Prophet” has ever caused me to feel more guilt than ETB. Because of him I quit a job I loved because I felt so guilty working outside the home (and it was a part time job). And the pressure to have more children was immense. I am paying the price today career-wise now that I have to support my family and I spent many years out of the work force. Don’t get me wrong, I love my kids, but we shouldn’t be shamed into staying home with them. And I still feel guilty today when I have to leave my teenager at home on her own. The indoctrination was very effective. Imagine that, a woman as the sole support for her family. Who would have ever thought?
:crazy: I’m not sure there is much I could say or do about this lesson. I saw the blog post through a link posted on this thread (I think it was here, I am too lazy to hunt it down), and it talked about the couple that was excommunicated for apostasy because the husband has a blog post about essentially these issues. He talked about the fallibility of prophets, and the importance of following Christ vs. the prophet/church. It was a bit chilling to say the least. If a man could be ex’d (along with his wife who never posted the blog) in 40 days, what does that say about tolerance for a different view point? I think I will plan to be absent that day, it will be less painful. It appears you need to keep quiet about your doubts, or at least never put them in print. Very disappointing indeed. Quote:DJ said:
My actual view is that God has little interest in us.
I admit that I am pretty much there myself. It’s not that I don’t think God loves me, but that He will let life play out, and there is little hope that He will step in and change things for me when I pray for such a thing. I believe He lets life happen. As for the “test” issue, perhaps the word opportunity is better. I believe God lets us figure out things on our own, much like the Brother of Jared, and that there are myriad ways of handling things. I want to believe He has interest in me, I just don’t want to hang my hat on it. This feeling has definitely affected my desire to pray. Why pray to a God that won’t/doesn’t intervene anyway? I honestly miss the faith I used to have, but at the same time I seemed to pray for decades and nothing seemed to change. Quite the conundrum. Now, I pray more out of habit than intent.
So where does the PH stand in all of this? If God let’s life happen, or He doesn’t have much interest in us, what benefit is it to us to get PH blessings? If you need the PH to motivate you to serve others, I suppose that is a laudable thing, but women don’t have the PH and we have plenty of opportunities to serve others, mostly involving food preparation
😆 . (Yes, I know that was a sexist remark.) Maybe, just maybe, God gave men the PH so they would have an increased desire to serve their fellow man. (I didn’t want to get in trouble by straying off topic, so I thought I better bring it back to the OP🙂 )DarkJedi, Quote:I agree. My son tells me stories of bishops in his foreign mission, instances where there simply is no one else to do the job. One excommunicated a 16-year-old, for instance (for getting pregnant). I can see that this is partly why South America has a retention/activity problem.
This problem is not isolated to SA. My cousin was ex’d at 16 for getting pregnant. I spoke with a friend who was a former bishop. One year in the 1980’s they ex’d 6 or 7 young people for sexual sin. Young people who didn’t hold the MP, or were endowed. He still affirms today it was the right thing to do. This takes us right back to the lack of continuity in exercising PH authority and disciplinary councils. My nephew got his GF pregnant and they got married. One year later they were kneeling across the altar being sealed to each other and their baby. That doesn’t happen much outside of Utah.
I see the PH authority often used inconsistently. That is a source of frustration and confusion for a lot of us. While DJ may not see this life or the PH as a test, just because God knows what we will do doesn’t mean we do, and that we shouldn’t be given the choices. I didn’t suggest the test was for God to see what we do, it is to see how we deal with the authority. It is about what WE learn from it, and how we use it to bless others. Or, if we choose to allow it to bless our lives.
DarkJedi.
Quote:If 11 includes the 14 fundamentals I could easily leave them out,
Indeed, it not only includes the 14 F’s, that is nearly the entire lesson. I am already dreading it. I need to learn to keep my mouth shut, but then I just feel irritated and uncomfortable. My mother is in my ward. If I skip class she always “worries” about me. I get the “I’m so glad you came” comment when I show up late. You would have no idea I am all grown up with kids and grand kids of my own. What is it about mothers and guilt??
:crazy: DarkJedi, I attended SS for the first time in several years due to a calling and the schedule. We discussed the role of Christ. Sad to say, it was incredibly boring with absolutely no new insights, no energy in the delivery, and I couldn’t wait for it to be over. All in all, a typical SS lesson. I hope things get better from here.
I read the Newsweek article linked in this thread. It was fascinating. I only wish the instructors would bring some of this type of information into the lesson, but I don’t really expect that to happen. We spent a great deal of time reading from the JST in Luke and John. With the advent of my FC, I am not sure I find the JST to be a credible source any longer. This darn FC certainly has taken the peace and enjoyment out of church
:problem: Perhaps the reason to give (men) the priesthood is to see what they will do with “a little authority”. In my own experiences, and as noted here, there are plenty of times that the authority of the priesthood is abused, and many more times it is used for the benefit of others. It is definitely a “power” that is given, as we see it, and how it is used will tell a lot about the man. An an example of the approach of two different men on the exact same subject–my ex husband had been excommunicated and been rebaptized but his blessings had not been restored fully. He died of a massive heart attack 1 day after his paperwork had been mailed to SLC for permission to have those blessings restored. This was devastating to my children on many levels, but especially left his eternal state in limbo for my children. I counseled with my SP, the one who had overseen his excommunication. He was emphatic–“It is everlastingly too late” he said. I left in a blubbering mess of tears and sorrow. Fast forward 2 years and this man had been released. His brother was serving in his place. I was still haunted by this worry, as were my children. I went and spoke to our new SP. HIs comment? “The Lord doesn’t care about paperwork He looks on the heart. He knows the man’s heart and all will be made right.” What a relief, and you can’t get two more opposite perspectives. Both of these men had the same authority and responsibility, and one approached his with love and compassion and the other with rationality and coldness. Both men will be judged for their decisions, their guidance and their compassions. Sometimes I think the priesthood and what a man does with it can go more to his detriment than to his blessing. And the same can be said for all of us and the power that we hold, whether as a spouse, a parent, or whatever. Maybe the priesthood is also a test.
Rachael said:
Quote:I wish the leadership would administer Carl Jung personality tests before administering callings
😆 Rachael, you should get along quite well with SilentDawning😆 Ray, I love what you wrote:
Quote:I read about long-suffering (allowing) and choose to believe God smiles down on us, probably with a tear in his eye, understands our fear and self-doubt and, in the end, will greet us with open arms and much, much more grace than we tend to think we deserve.
I think you are right. That being said, I am surprised no one has picked up on the obvious that sometimes church service is a train wreck. There are definitely ladders involved, where you don’t see a bishop called (usually) unless he has served in leadership elsewhere first. And there are plenty who view service as a train track, but there are many train wrecks, and they too are part of serving. I remember the story of my dad (a total TBM) who was asked to serve as scoutmaster. He hated scouting, camping, etc, and wasn’t great with the youth. He was very shy. He told the bishop he didn’t feel the calling was a good fit and they should ask someone else. They sustained him anyway. Six weeks later he was released.
Life happens, and sometimes a calling fits, and sometimes it doesn’t. The Lord knows what is in our hearts, and we do the best we can. And Rachael, if you feel closer to God by not attending church, then that is right for you at this time. I knew a family once that had been reactivated. They stayed in the church for less than a year. When I saw her again I asked why they stopped attending. She told me their life was happier without the church in it. She was very sincere, and they weren’t sinning or anything, she just found that their family life was more calm and peaceful when they didn’t attend church. What can you say to that except good for you, you have found peace.
Hi Stan, Welcome, and as someone said, just come on here and vent. Maybe that will help you to process some of what you are feeling. I am new here myself, and this board has been extremely helpful. As for your children, I have always appreciated JS telling us to “teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves”. It puts the burden right where it should be. I agree that there is some sort of “scoring system” in the church where you get points for your kid getting their Eagle Scout, or YW award, going on a mission, marrying in the temple, etc. It doesn’t matter that they have known their fiance for 3 weeks before they got engaged, if the marriage is in the temple, score! Like the others have said, what matters is that your children are happy, productive, and loving. God will judge us and our children, not the members of the church. You sound to me like you have great kids, you have done well.
