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cwald wrote:jamison wrote:
…President Hinckley in fact visited with the Dali Lama.
Really! I did not know this. Did he share ANY details of his visit that you are aware of?
I think he told him we would take care of the paper work for him once he was on the other side?
:angel: f4h1
hawkgrrrl wrote:I think the practice of paying directly to HQ is more prominent in affluent wards (the affluent are a tax-savvy bunch).
HG Is their a tax advantage to paying directly to HQ vrs. the check in the envelope method?
f4h1
cwald wrote:wrote…
This what I was trying to say, but just didn’t do it justice. Being a good mormon is NOT the same thing as being “righteous.” Yet we in our culture way too often confuse the two. “Mormon commandments” ARE NOT the same as the gospel commandments. Is one really being unrighteous if they wear two sets of earrings, drink tea, skip church, never go to church, wear a blue shirt, refuse a calling, don’t do their home-teaching, don’t believe in the story of Noah, watch football on sunday, get a tattoo, smoke a joint, don’t call the leaders by their titles, get a vasectomy, don’t follow the CHI, read the Bible every day instead of the BoM, question the message delivered at GC, give some of your tithing to other charities besides the LDS church, bring rubbarb jello to the potluck instead of carrot jello etc etc.
cwald, I thought we agreed that you wouldn’t list all my “sins.” I like the way you said it though, excet that wasn’t rubbard in the jello!
I just love it when someone gets up in TM and states how glad they are that they live a “Righteous” life. If makes me want to laugh and vomit at the same time.
f4h1
Orson wrote:wrote…
If it helps you to view the scrolls as a source of inspiration then by all means look at them in that way. The idea of Staying is to take all the good and valuable (no matter the source), hold to and cherish those things as you find new value in your community — and as you rediscover God’s hand on earth.
Personally, in my desire to stay, I have chosen to follow the Leonard Arrington way and say [paraphrasing his words in my own way]: “It doesn’t matter to me one bit whether they are ‘fictional’ in the traditional sense of the word, ‘metaphorical’ in their application, or precisely what happened. That they convey religious truth is what makes them meaningful to my worship, and of that I have never had a doubt.”
Orson, I can’t tell you how much this helps. I love the BOM, until now I had no idea how I was going to continue reading and teaching the children about it. I have many of the BOM cartoons on VHS and CD, last week I almost threw them all away, so glad I did’nt. I also agree that there is “religious truth” in the BOM, even if it turns out to be pure fiction. Nice work! f4h1Ray, Sorry about the link 
f4h1
My take: Growing up in the church most controversial or negative church issues that made it to my ears were easily explained away to my young, inexperienced, mind. I was also told that the Church had enemies that just wanted to tell lies and damage the “One True Church” (them vrs. us) I was outfitted with my spiritual flack-jacket, a shield of faith, and the sword of spirit (just bear your testimony). In the process of growing up
somepeople begin to analyze the tactics and fallacies of persuasion used for better or worse in this church and someof those people start to look outside the box that was put in place to keep them “safe” from the servants of the adversary. I was exposed to [the video linked in the initial post] at a point in my life after I had stopped believing everything I was told (for me that took way too long). Having said that, I must add that there is a possibility that my conclusions are wrong and if I find credible evidence supporting such, I will adjust my conclusions. I am not afraid of being wrong, there is always room in my life for more truth. But when I feel someone is using the tactics of old to explain away the situation, of course in favor of the status quo I am quick to call BS! With passion!
In my opinion and that of a good number of people inside and outside of the church, this documentary is well balanced, meaning that it is based on evidence that is tangible and can be tested.
One possibility is that JS knew he didn’t have any clue what he was doing and just invented the story of the book of Abraham. Perhaps he felt pressured by the saints who surrounded him to perform as he had in the past. Those members knew well that in his own words, he claimed that he had translated the Book of Mormon from ancient Egyptian.
Another possibility is that he had that burning in his chest and “felt the spirit” truly believing that he was translating the book of Abraham, brought to him by the power of God. I tend to favor this one based much on his behavior in the rest of his life.
The one point that I think is very strong is that what we know as the “Book of Abraham” in the POGP is not what it claims to be. Does that also mean that other translations or revelations of JS ie. “The Book of Mormon” and even the “Doctrine and Covenants” are as equally flawed as the “Book of Abraham?”
f4h1
I am shock and amazed. Prior to cwald’s post of Jan 1, was a post from SamBee dated » 28 Apr 2010, 15:16, 7 months ago, holy cow man! I didn’t expect such a restoration of my faith, but this is definitely resurrection of the thread! lol :angel: cwald wrote:wrote….Perhaps that is why I get riled up every conference and just about every Sundaycwald, I would go to your ward every Sunday on the chance that you
wouldget “riled” up! Heck, come visit my ward, sometimes if it weren’t for the snoring I’d be checking for pulses. Definatly “No” with regard to the question on Gods help. In fact many times that claim caused me to doubt in the past. Now I’m way past doubting!
f4h1
flowerdrops wrote:wrote….. Here’s to anThank you all for helping make 2010 much better than it may have otherwise been. Just knowing you are here and all really exist has helped me immensely as I have struggled with my faith. It can be a lonely journey when all your friends and family are hardcore, devoted TBMs. I can’t thank you all enough. You guys are awesome!My sentiments exactly, thanks to you all I no longer walk alone
f4h1
Very interesting conversation. I’m not used to such an open forum after 2 1/2 years of being in the closet. I’m still shocked about all that I didn’t know about our religion. 😯 f4h1
Quote:“trudge52” wrote…
I felt like I was possibly contributing to some young mans crisis of faith in the future by teaching the same party line that I had been taught growing up. I am still in such a state of confusion with what I believe right now that teaching young impressionable minds was a struggle.This may be my biggest struggle as my boys prepare to go on missions. I too believe that there are many more of “us” out there and I like the Idea of more open discussion in classes. I have herd it suggested that the internet and forums such as this will help get the truth out. Will the church ever come to grips with its past so we can move on? Trudge52 you obviously care and want to do the right thing, and because you care, I think you’ll do great!
f4h1
Quote:“silentstruggle” wrote.. Is it any wonder that most of our meetings and classes are frightfully boring?
I can relate to this. I thought it was just me that was bored out of my freeking mind!
CwaldBack to patterns
My non-member wife married a RM, check…
Latter sealed in the Temple, check…
Reciently my mold was shattered ???
We were doing A, B and C, now I struggle, but I’m not sure I’ll be happy with the perfect Celestial Kingdom crowd, wool makes me itch and the blinders wont fit anymore.
f4h1
Doug Thanks for stiring the pot, and CWALD I would like to nominate you as the official stirer! I don’t have much to add, only the perspective of one recently excaped from the “box”. Let me just admit how refreshing it is to view things as they are and not always feeling obligated to defend the doctine or what the “prophets” of the one and only true church have said. I love this place!
f4h1
Gulp, I found this site shortly after you did. My intro was a bit angry and to my surprise, I have felt a lot of the anger leave (I still have a little, okay more than just a little, but getting better almost every day). The family, as I call them, here is very understanding, and accepting, that helps a lot. Hopefully you will find what you need here. I needed someone to listen and understand without calling me weak or a sinner. I have found that I have much in common with so many here. Just like you I studied to much. My friends here help me add to my reasons to stay. I will never go back to the way I was, but I believe I will be a better Christian than I was before. I really liked what Brian wrote and what silent wrote…
Quote:Postby silentstruggle » 12 Dec 2010, 10:05
A start on buffet Mormonism is realizing that we are ALL already buffet Mormons. Many of us choose not to do family history. Others choose not to do their home teaching and visiting teaching. Others struggle with a doctrine, but put it in a little box in their brain, rather than dealing with it. Lots of older couples choose not to go on missions. There is positively more stuff we are told to do than anyone CAN do.
There are more of us out there, perhaps its our “calling” to seek out the ones, the ones that hurt like us that we can help.
fatherof4husbandof1
