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Quote:
Membership is based more on who has your heart than on who has your records.”
Stephen E. Robinson, “Warring against the Saints of God,” Ensign, Jan 1988, 34.
http://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/01/warring-against-the-saints-of-god?lang=eng I love, love, love these quotes. Thanks for posting them! It makes much more sense to me that God requires us to be true to what we believe is truth, rather than be true to one correct path…especially if you accept the idea that we are living in a veiled world. How could God expect more? What I struggle with…even though these incredible quotes can be found from GA’s of the church, why doesn’t the every day membership support this type of thinking? I wonder if it is because we can also find a monster stash of quotes from GA’s that say the opposite: this is the one true path, this is the true way to happiness…(black and white thinking).
Welcome to this site Jamie. I am fairly new here and also find it to be so comforting to have a place to turn when it seems everyone around me thinks so literally and absolutely about the truth they have. I simply don’t know that truth anymore. Like you, I hope to discover one day that it is in fact the Savior’s church. After all, it use to hold my heart and soul. I want to love it again, like I once did. You are not alone my friend! I can definitely say that time will heal some of the anxiousness. A faith crisis is a huge loss to experience and with it comes the stages of grief. I have felt anger, sadness, and complete confusion. In such a short period of time I have believed everything from devout mormonism to being athiest, agnostic, and now- it’s the gospel according to myself! Now that doesn’t sound “wayward” does it!!
:think: The world just isn’t the same anymore. I no longer have a picture in my mind of where I came from, why I am here, and where I am going. My mission is not what it was and my safety net is gone.
But…a few things I am coming to accept and find joy in…
1) If God exists, he would not expect me to live in a veiled world and follow a black and white way of thinking. He WOULD NOT place a veil over our eyes and then say- By the way, this life will determine your eternity.
2) If God exists, he knows I am doing my darnedest to find Him. Punishing me with the loss of eternal family and glory because I have discovered something within mormonism that makes believing so very difficult…that just doesn’t make sense. I will not fear the loss of celestial glory because my past beliefs would say it is in jeopardy. The past is the past. God looks on the heart and he knows my heart’s desire remains the same: to serve Him. Something is telling me that what I once believed is not what God wants ME to believe. I can’t ignore that. To ignore it would be to ignore God….seems counter-productive to my heart’s desire!
3) Until the veil is removed, belief in anything spiritual and eternal will always be an act of faith. To remove myself partially, or wholly from mormonism is an act of faith for me. I am not rebelling against something that I know to be true because I no longer know it to be true! I am following where I feel God is guiding me. In the end- I may be going down a wrong path. In the end, I may need to backtrack a whole lot to regain a celestial understanding. And if that’s the case, I most certainly will do that. But for now, I find peace in knowing that I am being true to what I think God wants me to do.
4) Maybe God doesn’t exist. That is certainly a possibility as well. I allowed myself to embrace this as a reality for about a month or so. But I just wasn’t happy. Suddenly there was no reason for anything and no purpose to being here. There was no music and soul to living.
I want to believe in God, and while a small part of me fears He may not exist…a much bigger part of me can feel his presence in everything around me. So, as I continue on this journey, I choose to believe in a God that is directing me to where I need to be. My connection to God feels stronger every day and while this connection does not feel the same as it did within Mormonism, the bond is incredibly empowering and so filled with trust and respect. I truly walk with a greater amount of clarity, love and faith than I ever did with my prior knowledge of the plan of salvation.
I continue to go to the mormon church with my husband and I am trying so hard to find God’s messages for me within those walls. Even with my new found testimony…and lack thereof, I don’t see the point of going to a different church. My new testimony is leading me to a new definition of truth. I don’t think truth is to be found in ONE religion, ONE organization, or ONE theology. But Mormonism is what I know. It is my family. I am trying to make it feel like home again, with my new and improved belief system.
The biggest struggle is the “either you are with us or you are against us” member mentality. Hopefully in time, there will be a greater acceptance of personal struggle/interpretation within the walls of the church and we won’t need to find solace from staylds alone. But for the time being, this website is here.
:clap: Is it silly that I actually fill up with tears when I think about this website?Sorry I have rambled on for so long. One final thought: Your journey is yours. Be honest and true to what YOU feel you need to do… because it will lead you to amazing places.
Thank you all so much! Who would have thought that a crisis of faith could turn into a treasure chest of information. I am currently reading RSR and will spend more time on such sites as Mormonstories, Mormonthink, Mormonmatters, FAIR…I am really quite excited that there are so many places to get the facts as they are, without the worry of it being an anti-mormon agenda. I think I also heard about an annual conference for folks such as ourselves. Is this true? Has anyone from here attended?
To kentbower, First of all, I would like to thank you for giving me more to think about. I can see you have spent a considerable length of time feeling angst for my situation and the time you have spent is heartfelt. I thank you. You have mentioned many, many points that my husband and I have discussed at length. While I appreciate the purpose for which you have responded, I feel I should point out a couple of things that have left me feeling uneasy.
1. You missed the very thing that started me on this journey of discovery. In my very first post I stated:
Quote:How can it be that these devout members of the ONE true church have received these revelations on my behalf…
While I truly appreciate your concern, you have presented your post as though you have been guided by God to give me revelation about my own spirituality. I speak with God daily and I feel he is guiding me where I need to be. I LOVE that he trusts me enough to send me through controversial waters of historical facts, challenging my own belief system and even prompting me to break a commandment here and there to BETTER understand the atonement. God is my guide. HE knows me and HE knows what I need to hear and do.2. I can feel your passion for the gospel and the absolute truth that your testimony holds for YOU. I think that is wonderful. But my journey is my journey. You said…
Quote:you are seeking the truth, right? Or are you seeking self justification, the choice is yours
You are making an assumption that if I choose something that you wouldn’t choose, somehow my choice is justification…this is false.
Quote:Wake up and see these evidences for what they mean, I implore you.
Again, I must take your interpretation as being the end of the story. I understand that you feel the need to help me see the light. But please understand that I love God with all of my heart and I am so carefully treading these waters of doubt. The only thing I know as an absolute right now is that God is mindful of me and guiding me. He does not want me to blindly follow your interpretation. By asking me to wake up and see what you see, you are robbing me of the journey that I am currently experiencing with God. One day I may have the same testimony that I once had. But your telling me to wake up does not speed the process of what God is asking me to learn. I love God too much to blindly follow what kentbower interprets on my behalf.I apologize if that sounds harsh or unkind. I just want my journey of faith to be between me and God. Not me, God and any member that feels it is there responsibility to right my path.
Quote:Are you truly seeking? Find your scriptures and read it.
Just because I do not currently choose to read the Book of Mormon doesn’t mean I am not seeking answers from scripture. I know I will return to reading the Book of Mormon one day. It still holds a place in my heart. I will get there when God want me there.
Quote:Both these videos are directed to you. You mentioned, “I was prayerful the entire way.” When you pray for answers, it is wisdom to not dismiss them when they come.
Please do not presume that I am dismissing answers to prayers. That is between me and God.
Quote:“I cannot even open the book,” is utterly and precisely how the adversary would have it.
I disagree. God knows what I need right now. He needs me to make peace with the history of the church. How I will do that has yet to be determined. But until I feel peace about the Book of Mormon, God does not need or expect me to open it.Please know that I do appreciate your intentions here. I do. I have read your thoughts carefully and they are of value. My journey is no less God driven than yours is. What I am accepting as truth, is no less valid than what you accept as truth.
I hope I am doing this “quote” thing correctly…here goes… Quote:The LDS church no longer defines my walk with God. It is just a church that I go to.
Thank you Roy. I see myself heading in this same direction, but currently in a very cautious manner. What a strange feeling it is to rework a belief system that has been so near and dear to my heart, and while doing it, second guessing myself the entire way. “Am I being deceived” is constantly on my mind. At times I feel such clarity of thought and at other times I feel complete and absolute fear. I hope you don’t mind my sharing an experience I had this week; perhaps mostly to gain clarity from the experience and to solidify what the heck I am learning with all of this!
Some background knowledge: I was raised in the LDS church and have never committed any of the “big” WOW sins; never had a cup of coffee or tea, never any alcohol or smoking. My earliest memory related to the WOW was with my family at my great- grandmother’s house (a non-member). She had spent all day preparing a nice meal for us and just as we began to eat dessert, my mother had a look of absolute horror on her face. She immediately asked us to stop eating the trifle and explained to my great-grandmother that because there was alcohol in the dessert, we could not eat it. My dear Granny Nanny, as we liked to call her, was so embarrassed. And the message I took away from it, which I wish had been different was, gosh- it must be a serious sin to break the WOW otherwise my mother wouldn’t have embarrassed my granny like that! The observance of the WOW became a solid indication that I was right with God and, while I didn’t judge others for breaking the WOW, for me it was NOT going to happen. Breaking it would mean being weak, not having a testimony, and surely God would bannish me. In other words, I was motivated by fear.
This brings me to the past couple of weeks. Since coming to the conclusion that the LDS church is not the
One.True.Only, naturally I have questioned what I believe and what I will follow in the church. I haven’t seen any reason to follow the word of wisdom and have been quite excited about the possibility of “being a normal human being”…thoughts of having a glass of wine with dinner or a cup of coffee in the morning have made me feel giddy with excitement! How silly hey?! 😆 It was a constant on my mind but I just couldn’t do it! After all, what if I am deceived!! Time after time, I would play with the idea of having a “sinful” drink, only to cower away with fear.
Then Wednesday morning, I decided- this is the day! I drove up to the Starbucks window, opened my mouth to order and I thought I might die!! I had an immediate vision of growing a wart on my nose and physically changing form. My heart started to beat and I was paralyzed with fear. I felt like I was a little child about to do the most evil thing in the world.
😥 I drove away without my coffee and completely disgusted with myself…am I really that afraid of God??!…and how did I not see the damage I was doing to myself before!!I feel like this is where God stepped in and taught me an important message.
I wasn’t two minutes down the road and I had a confident and powerful feeling that this irrational fear was holding me back and was NOT God given. I was on auto-pilot and went immediately to the next drive-through, ordered a small coffee and let it sit in my car while I prayed. I asked God to help me move on from this silly fear and I was reassured that what was sitting in my car really was just a drink. It wasn’t a dark drink with a tiny devil sitting inside it. It was a drink! And what I was doing was making a decision, not defining my eternal happiness. Just a freakin decision!!
Well, I finally did it!!
😮 I drank that coffee, and while it may have tasted like feet (seriously, how do people drink this stuff), I didn’t curl up into a ball and wither away. In fact, I can honestly say that I felt peace. The fear of God was removed and instead, I was left with feeling the spirit.How bizarre is that! I am a mormon and I felt the spirit BECAUSE I broke the Word of Wisdom!!
:clap: 😆 But the truly bizarre feeling came next. I went home and WANTED to put my garments back on. I WANTED to go to the temple. I WANTED to read the bible (notice the BofM is still undesirable). But this time, it was because I like that part of my life and I see it’s value. Not because I have no other choice but to be obedient otherwise I will be eternally damned.
I can’t say that I will never have another coffee, and I am quite certain that I will have that glass of wine with dinner one day. But you know what…big hairy deal! It’s not the end of the world. It’s a decision. Granted, I may one day feel the need to repent for that decision. But the atonement is for me too!! God doesn’t need me to act out of fear.
Perhaps sinning and repenting is of far more importance than going through the motions and being “faithful” out of fear. Hallelujah!!!! and in the words of Homer Simpson, “Praise Jeebus!”
Thank you all very much for your welcome and words or wisdom. I never imagined that such a site as this would exist or that there would be a need for such a site. Thank you for being true to what you believe. I am increasingly excited about the possibility of navigating through what I believe and how I can make sense of everything the past two years have brought. Of one thing I feel certain: God is aware of each of us and knows exactly what we need to come closer to him. For me right now, that is not within the walls of a mormon church, however it is still within the theology of mormonism. Does that make sense? Roy, Thank you for sharing your experience. It sounds like our paths have been quite similar. I completely agree, experiencing such a loss is a total game changer! Life has not been the same, and in many many ways, it is far better.
I agree with your statement about others needing their “revelations” more than me. I have pondered on the same thought- perhaps those revelations were from God as a possible explanation to the person receiving it. For example, I referred to my mother-in-law receiving a revelation that my son was going to be schizophrenic. This is offensive on so many levels, especially considering that my own father is schizophrenic. Is it possible that my son was going to be schizophrenic?- Absolutely. But that certainly doesn’t mean he should be disregarded and not given the opportunity to live in this world.
But if I look from my mother-in-law’s perspective, I wonder if she may have blamed herself for the loss of my son. Her side of the family is full of sad baby stories from miscarriage to SIDS and still-birth. Perhaps God was giving her a possibility that could give her mind some peace. I don’t know- maybe far fetched…but I can see personal revelation being an indication of possible realities and NOT only an indication of complete truth.
Tacenda, I think you are right. Our loss has definitely snapped us out of that safe place of knowing the church is true. I can imagine how hard that must be, living in a heavily populated mormon area. I’m not sure how I would have handled this faith crisis if it happened while I was at Ricks or BYU.
All of my immediate friends and family are members and I am hesitant to tell them how I feel about the church. Mostly, I don’t want to be the cause of snapping someone else out of that safe place. I know most members will simply believe I am deceived by anti-mormon literature. They will disregard my faith crisis by simply stating that I didn’t have a testimony to begin with. I am very afraid that the response of friends and family will lead me closer to being anti.
God bless this site is all I have to say!!!
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am also new to this site and have found great comfort in knowing that others are experiencing similar feelings related to Joseph Smith and subsequently BoM, Temple, WofW, etc. I have no words of wisdom to share…Only to say that I completely understand where you are coming from and I think it is good to question and search for answers. God knows our hearts and will lead each of us where he wants us to be, whether that be in the church or elsewhere. The difficulty comes is being true to what God is speaking, even if it is contrary to what we have held as the only truth for so long.
I am trying to look at this new found knowledge as a journey that will bring me closer to understanding God’s will in my life.
