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I’m going through this issue right now. Although I’ve indirectly thought about it, I’ve never straight out asked myself, do I like the church? I think that question has two parts to it. Do I like the church on a daily/weekly basis? and Do I like the church over a long period of time? Another thing I’ve been asking myself is, can my children have the same benefits from the church that I had if they are raised with unbelieving parents? I think that a lot of the “peace” I felt from the church had to do with my perception of it (which I now believe to be from distorted information). If my perception has changed how will that effect my children’s experiences? I just finished listening to John Dehlin’s podcast on raising children in an NOM/StayLDS home. I think there may be a link to that here but I don’t know how to do links. One thing that was said there is that by staying in the church it allowed parents to have discussions with the kids that may not have otherwise occurred. When the kids learn something at church that is different then what is taught or observed at home they are bound to question but that does not have to be a bad thing.
FMOF
Actually I have taken things pretty slowly. I’ve been around for a bit I just don’t always find the time to get on here. I would have to say that the variety of types of people on NOM is quite similar to here. There just happens to be more people on there that have not chosen to continue being an active LDS. I think every one is an individual and needs to make the best decision for themselves and their family. Most of my knowledge I have to admit does come from my husband. With 4 kids to take care of I don’t always find the time for reading (and I’m not much of a reader either). I have done some myself and have also listened to some pod casts as well as watched a few programs or various different subjects. When DH entered his research (which started with CH, lead to Christianity and religion and ended with science) he ended up doing more reading then he had in his whole life. The two of us have come to a conclusion based on our research of various different topics that we know longer agree with certain aspects of the Mormon church. We believe it to be man-made and subjective to the men who have and do hold leadership over it. This does not mean that we feel any animosity towards the church or wish to sever our ties with it. We are just at the point where we want to make personal choices that are not in harmony with the current teachings of the church and are wondering how to address that issue. DH really wants to be straightforward about his views but I prefer a more silent less confronting approach. So what do you do when you no longer feel a connection to an organization you belong to but the consequences of leaving are maybe greater then you want to or are prepared to handle? Also how do you find a balance between the parts of the organization that you still hold dear while not being affected by the parts you are in conflict with? I trust my priesthood leaders to the extent of their experience. I would take their council with as much interest as I would a friends. Concerning PB I completely agree with the comparison to horoscopes. When DH got his (I think he was only 
the patriarch told him that at first he had a hard time getting he hang of it but over the years he was able to get better at it. The patriarch learns how to get to know you in a very short time by asking the right questions and reading body language. In your case the council given is something that is supported by church leaders so it is a very safe thing to say and good council for any active LDS wishing to be righteous.DH snagged the same pic as SamBee’s link for his facebook. I thought it was a bit bold of him 😮 but he loves it
Rix wrote:BUT, I don’t think there is another “church” that has anything better either!
I think answering the question “what if the Church ISN’T true? and coming up with the conclusion that I’m just about as sure that it is not as I had been before that it was, has made me re-think the statement you’ve made Rix. DH and I have been taking our children to other Christian denominations occasionally. We always explain that the reasons are for them to learn how others worship so that they can gain a better respect for others beliefs. We follow-up with a discussion as well. Tonight we even has a FHE lesson talking about the things that Christian religions agree about the teachings of Jesus like, love, service and unselfishness. It has been a wonderful experience for us all. I don’t think you can really know if the LDS church is better with out really knowing what the others offer. I’m still trying to figure that out for myself. There is a church walking distance from us and we visited it once. We all walked as a family there and back and then since it was only one our we took the kids to the local arboretum and had a picnic lunch. It was one of the best Sunday we’ve ever had. At this church the children’s program is absolutely amazing and very organized. The kids were actually able to tell us what they learned way better then they do at our own church. They only have the kids go with the grown-ups once a month. As the kids get older they have a program during Sunday school a little more structured to prepare them to eventually join the adults. So it is not stressful on the kids or the adults. The church has an amazing social program. Before doing the sacrament (which is once a month) the Pastor explains that all are welcome to partake whether or not they are a member. Your desire to accept Christ is more important than how you live rules. Now I don’t know if this church would be better but what I’m saying is that before I started visiting other churches (which we don’t do more than once a month BTW) I don’t think I really knew if the LDS church really was the best even though I assumed it probably was. Answering the question What if the Church ISN’T true? has just opened up new possibilities for me.
I enjoyed reading that. Thanks for sharing it Ray. I think that when ever anyone has to do something that may take a little more work than others that it gives us a chance to appreciate that thing a little more. This is a question DH and I pondered off and on as TMB’s. We felt so positive about the church that even if it wasn’t true we thought it was the best thing out there. Now I’m not so sure. I have come to a personal conclusion, from the information I have gathered so far(and that could change with additional info), that the Corporation of the President (legal name of the church) does not do things in a christian-like manner but puts it’s own business interests first. I believe that the people in the church trying to live by the wholesome principles it teaches is what is true. I believe that Christianity is man-made but institutions/churches encourage people to live good lives and that could be considered “truth”. I believe that the LDS church tries very hard at maintaining good values and principles that encourage people to live good lives. I also think that the church has many ways of doing things that can also be very damaging to individuals. I do not agree with the manipulation or control it uses to meet it’s objectives. I think that as long as people are ignorant to what is “going on behind the scenes” or to the foundation that this church is built on that the issues I have with the church would not be relevant to them. Right now I’ve gone past the question “what if the church ISN’T true?” I’ve already dealt with that one. The question I’m dealing with right now is whether or not I can continue in clear conscious supporting the church and raising my kids in it now that I see it with the mask off. It is a very good question to ask but I think it has many parts to it. Here are some additional questions I had never thought of asking when I pondered the question “what if the Church ISN’T true”, that may be worth considering. Try asking what if JS made this all up? What if JS and other prophets did things that would be offensive to you? What if the money I’m donating is being used in ways that I would not be comfortable with? What if our situation for the after-life was never “revealed” to anyone and it was all just opinions of others? If the answers to these questions are not what you would prefer can you still see truth in the church?
Footing
The man was also “slow”. I’m not saying that to be disrespectful, I’m just not sure what other terminology to use. I think he may have had other learning disabilities. I don’t think he had asked to do it, it was just something that had been discussed in PEC. I think that if he would have gone to the Bishop and asked to it may have been different but I don’t know. I do remember being a bit shocked at his reasoning. The point is that there is no guidelines (that I know of) so Bishop’s can kind of just make their own decisions when it comes to people with disabilities. The Bishop was very supportive in other ways. When those knowing sign moved out of the ward he just called someone else and challenged them to learn sign. The guy called (a friend of ours) was one of the best things that had happened to our deaf friend. The bishop even got missionaries who knew sign in our ward and set up a class where people had a chance to learn sign so they could communicate with him. Brian Johnston wrote:I’m a skeptical doubter. I am skeptical about my doubts
I love this statement Brian!!!
I think I’m just about all of the above types mentioned depending on my mood
This…
just me wrote:I do not believe that “who do you pray to” is even on the temple interview. So, he wasn’t even given a proper interview, IMO.
and this…
SamBee wrote:I’m skeptical of this idea of adults functioning at the level of five year olds, which I have heard about people with Down’s Syndrome, partly because these people have had more life experience, and are also different from five year olds in other ways.
Makes me wonder if the situation was dealt with properly. There isn’t really guidelines when it comes to people who have mental and sometimes physical disabilities.We had a deaf man in our ward that the bishop wouldn’t let bless the sacrament. He didn’t see the point in him signing it and someone else interpreting. I grew up with a girl who had Cerebral Palsy (I think) her mind was completely there but she couldn’t speak. Would she be denied going to a dedication because she physically could not answer temple recommend questions. My niece in some ways has a level of a 4 yrs old and in other ways like an 8 yrs old and in other ways like the 12yrs old she is. How is she going to be judged by church leaders?
I do not think that a temple recommend should be required anyways. I think that preventing people from experiencing a temple dedication is very unchristian like. If the church is so concerned about the missionary effort in North America having the dedication be an opportunity for everyone to feel the “spirit” would me much more effective then putting the guilt trip on leaders to meet quotas.
It’s nice to see another fellow Canadian on the board BTW
Footing
Those were some good points SamBee. A good book to read is “a case for God” by Karen Armstrong. She doesn’t talk about God as being literal but she talks about how important a part he plays in our lives. Prayer is proactive when we really consider our blessings and focus on areas we want to refine. There are many ways how religion can be benifitial.
I still go to church and pretend all is going well (in public). I am my own person now and the church does not own me anymore. However, my change of heart towards the church was not because I struggled with living the way I was told. I did go through the same feelings as you though and I think they are very common to LDS ( especially women IMO) members. Sometimes the requirements of the Mormon religion set people up for a lose-lose situation. I don’t think it is possible to do everything the church says we are required to. Yet guilt/pressure is often given to meet all those requirements. I now no longer believe that many of the “do’s” have anything to do with my “salvation” or that many of the “don’t” have anything to do with my “damnation”. That is one of my favourite scripture stories. I love the respect he shows towards his father regardless of the father’s short-comings. The scriptures really do have a lot to offer if you want them to, if you look for it, and if you can see past the contradictions. SamBee wrote:I think there is no contradiction here… it’s more a case of…
“Honour thy father and thy mother”
BUT
if they’re holding you back in your spiritual path, split yourself off from them.
I agree. I think that if we can look past the way things were worded and try to find meaning behind them, that we can still find worth in the scriptures that we can gain from. There are still going to be things we may just discard but I think there are good teachings in there that are of worth.My3GirlsDad wrote:The Dead Sea Scrolls corroborated the translation of OT scripture with almost perfect accuracy- so the whole translation error argument is tenuous IMO.
Quote:So I have made a decision. I choose to believe in the words of Christ found in the New Testament over the words that Joseph Smith said he got from God. I don’t know that I am right, but my confidence is very high and I believe it without doubting. I have made a decision about what I believe based on all the evidence that I have studied. It’s that simple for me, really. If forced to choose…I will bet on the NT.
I think it’s great that you can find peace in the NT. I love reading Tolkien, especially the Silmarillion which is basically the mythical bible to his creation of middle earth. I gain a lot from it but I understand that it is mythical. I’m not sure what you have studied about the bible or the NT. It’s fine for you to hold to the teachings in it but to base it on accuracy of the records, to me, is from a lack of research/study.
