[findingmyownfooting]

SamBee wrote:

Well, I think most people in this part of the woods know little about the church other than American guys in suits wandering around knocking on doors. And the Osmonds. Make of that what you will.

The other problem is our culture here revolves around drinking. And it’s hard not to socialise without pouring alcohol down your throat. It’s difficult to be sober amongst a bunch of drunks.

This sounds similar to the problems my DH faced being raised in England. His soulution was to leave the county 😯 . I think that sometimes we just can’t do anything about the people around us. All we can do it make the best of what we have. It must be frustrating for you though.

[findingmyownfooting]

I’ve started taking a note pad to church with me. I write down any thoughts I have during the lesson (even if it’s not the conclusion the teacher was heading for 😈 ) DH and I have discussed later what I came up with which made for a good Sunday afternoon conversation. If you really want to get something out of the lesson I would recommend reading the lesson ahead of time. If you’re prepared maybe you could initiate a discussion that would be interesting to you. Chances of it happening are hit and miss though. I’ve enjoyed listening to the comments of others and noticing those who have “like minds” to mine. DH and I have talked about going for a walk while the kids are in primary once the weather gets better.

I never had much problem with non-members before. I remember once in high school when I became the object of focus for a drug dealer and my friends all stood up for me. I was never an “in your face” kind of person with my religion. I find that most times when you show respect to others for their beliefs and choices they will often respect you. If they are open to you answering questions that would be a good thing. It’s unfortunate when people are negative towards others for being apart of a group. This had been the reason for much war and destruction in the world. I don’t know if there is much you can to about that. Sometimes if their prejudice is because of a negative experience they have had with Mormons in the past the best you can do is just be a good example and hope with time they will judge you for who you are and not for your personal religious choices.

[findingmyownfooting]

I really think the responsibility relies on the leaders. Our Stake started cracking down on this problem a few years ago (not that it was all that terrible) and it’s made a big difference. The Bishopric worked hard at reminding us to come early. They would thank the organist for the prelude music at the beginning of the meeting mentioning how nice it is to sit and listen to it as we prepare for the meeting to start. It was discussed in PEC and WC and that helped that the leaders all around were collectively working on it. Yes there are still some people chatting but most are sitting in their seats 5 mins before hand listening to the prelude music. We try to get to church early and allow our kids to “get their wiggles out” before entering the chapel to sit down. We don’t make them sit for that 5 mins as it’s difficult for them at their age and with a child challenged with attention and energy issues. One parent just quietly goes to get them a couple minutes before we start. For the most part it works.

I remember being in a ward where no one would leave at the end of the meeting until the aaronic priesthood dismissed their row. People were then greeted at the door as they left and thanked for coming. I thought it was a bit ridged but it worked to solve reverence issues. It really does depend on the ward and I would think that the bigger the ward is the harder it is to maintain reverence.

If you really want to do something about it I would suggest asking if you could give a talk on reverence.

[findingmyownfooting]

ldsmaverick7 wrote:

Or maybe it would be more correct to say that the church hasn’t shrunk, but our minds have grown.

This is the way I see it.

This is sort of what I meant in my open-minded post. Realizing that everything does not have to fit into the world of Mormon doctrine and teaching allows our minds to “open up” to other possibilities. There’s a sense of freedom to explore and acquire an unlimited amount of knowledge and to make our own conclusions. I also feel like I can be more respectful of others choices too. I always felt that I respected “others rights to make their own choices even if they are unrighteous”. Now I realize that what is righteous or unrighteous is not always so clear. Each religion (or school of thought) has their own agenda on the subject of what is right and wrong. I believe that we each have the right to choose what our own agenda is as long as it does not inflict on the rights of others. I don’t think I could go back to being a TBM either but there are some beliefs I wish I could get back and maybe someday I will. In the topic “Atonement and Repentance: your thoughts” Ray made this comment : “it is only a belief that what they become matters eternally that gives them the motivation to act differently than they would without that belief.” I wish I could get back that same motivation because when I had it I really could do more than myself. My world of what I could achieve, in that sense, seemed larger. I’m still young though and I hope there is plenty of room to learn and grow yet.

[findingmyownfooting]

Tom Haws wrote:

One of our fundamentals here is that you are safe to discuss frankly (and respectfully) ALL (I think) your issues. I hope you will feel free to search the old material and add your two cents or start a new thread about what you have in mind.

Thanks. I was still a little sore about how I felt when my DH poured out the info on me and was so afraid I would do the same to someone else and cause them hurt. I love this forum and the variety of points of view there are. It’s amazing to me to see diversity and respect working so well together.

[findingmyownfooting]

I read somewhere (maybe NOM or a book my DH was sharing with me) that the tradition of not using crosses came from one of the earlier prophets. Sorry I can’t remember with one. That prophet had a personal dislike for the cross which was currently on Mormon chapels and initiated the practice to cease. This tradition had been handed down over time and evolved it’s self into Mormon culture. Although I agree it is better to focus on the life of Christ (meaning his resurrection) we never would have had that if it hadn’t been for his death. They are each important parts of Christianity. Maybe you could explain to people (if they quesion you on it) that remembering Christ’s death through the symbol of the cross is important to you and not something you want to abandon for the sake of a tradition which is not doctrine. Or you could simply say everyone relates to Christ in their own way and this is how I do it. Others should know better than to judge you and if they do you can throw that at them too, no one likes the threat that they are being judgemental.

[findingmyownfooting]

bridget_night wrote:

Inside, we really do not want to throw the baby out with the bathe water.

This is exactly how I felt (and used the same words with my DH). This site is great for someone who wants to continue having the things about Mormonism that is dear to them with out being forced to accept everything taught. It is OK to think for ourselves, that is not a sin, nor is disagreeing with something either.

I hope you find your peace, Welcome.

[findingmyownfooting]

Welcome. I too commend you for your maturity. It can be hard to find that place in your life where you can accept the good of the church despite it’s “challenges”. I agree that your open mindedness could be an asset to your mission. However, it will also be a frustration when you come across things that contradict your personal belief. But isn’t that the way life is.

We can’t control how others think we can only control how we think. But if we try to understand why others think the way they do then it can help us deal with those contradictions that are bound to occur. This could be a good learning experience if you choose to take it on.

[findingmyownfooting]

I find this to be a very controversial topic. I actually do not believe in “forever families” the way the church teaches it. However, I will try to attempt to give you a reply on this topic. If there is an afterlife I do not believe we would have to be with anyone we wouldn’t want to be. Not sure one this, but I think the church teaches that we will all have to be perfected in the end before receiving our exultaion. I would assume that any strained relationship, wrongful acts or decisions that caused pain to another would have to be resolved before a person would move on to the “eternal life and exultation” part of the plan. I guess that’s why we are encouraged not to judge others as we (in mormon belief) will need to go through that stage of refinement just as the rest of our family. The concept of forever families comes from the teaching that we will become as gods and be able to have spirit children just as he does. In that sense our families are forever because they will always continue on through out time, never ceasing. For those who have negative feelings towards certain families members I would encourage them to apply the concept of forever families to those they have positive feelings towards and with those they can create positive relationships with.

[findingmyownfooting]

Euhemerus wrote:

I tend to focus on the conceptual goodness it brings me now. For me, at this point, rather than articulate, or speculate on the atonement itself, I would discuss its practical application in our lives.

I would do the same. I would use caution with the word “sin”. In the church there are so many things seen as “sinful” that are really just a matter of perception. Too often we are encouraged to constantly repent because since we aren’t perfect we must always be making mistakes. I found this mindset destructive as a TBM. I would keep the talk positive saying things like how repentance can heal past hurts, mend strained relationship, encourage positive behaviour and thought etc… It isn’t so much about “correcting our sin” as it is about trying to find happiness with-in ourselves and towards others.

[findingmyownfooting]

just me wrote:

I’d even bring really yummy bread and actually remember it.

We’re so lucky at our ward, we have a lady who makes fresh baked bread for sacrament. It’s sooo good! She suffers from something that makes it difficult for her to serve in other ways so she does this. It’s a real disappointment when she is too ill to make the bread and we have to have the regular store bought kind.

[findingmyownfooting]

This is a question DH and I have been talking about lately. DH knows that the bishops time is ending soon and he is pretty sure he is on the list on candidates. Not sure if it is the short list or the long list though. One thing we both agree on is that when a calling is extended an answer does not have to be given right away. If the one extending gave pressure into an immediate answer then I think pressure should be given right back by saying that it would result in a negative response. Personally I’ve got a pretty comfy calling as Activity Days leader for girls. I get to have some special time with my daughter in this calling. I would not want to work with the youth right now as there are too many evenings out required. I also wouldn’t want to be a SS teacher as the responsibility of making it interesting and not controversial to my thinking would be too much.

[findingmyownfooting]

HiJolly wrote:

Another analogy: We are freshly heated jello, weak and formless. The mold is the commandments, the form is God’s attributes. If we are poured out on to the kitchen counter, missing the mold, then we spread all over and have no form nor use. If we go into the mold; if we limit our growth, then we take on a form and have a use. Why then would we avoid the mold?

I either don’t understand this analogy or I don’t agree with it. The statement “if we limit our growth, then we take on a form and have a use”, just does not sit right with me.

Heber13 wrote:

I guess I can see how the sacrifice is a gesture by the cat, and the naturalist could appreciate that…but if the cat never brought a mouse…would the naturalist think anything less of the cat? In other words, does the naturalist expect the cat to now provide sacrifices (even if meaningless) because he saved the kittens?

Good point to ponder Heber13

[findingmyownfooting]

Cadence wrote:

The very ironic thing for me is that when I was more devout it was because of fear. But now that I am more liberated in my belief I operate much more out of love.

Sorry I didn’t have the time to read through all the responses but this statement kind of hit home for me. Today I went to church with a note pad and jotted down some of my thoughts while listening to the lessons. Before when I was a TBM I went because it was my duty, now I go because I want to see what I can get out of it. I’ve done that many times before as a TBM but there was something different this time. It was a decision I made on my own this time. I think having a more liberated belief allows you to have the freedom to be who you want to be and not who you are told to be. I believe this motivation has healthier outcomes.

[findingmyownfooting]

HiJolly wrote:

Peep-stones are not just any old rock, you know.

Yes I realize this. Actually the “seer stones” my kids have aren’t really seer stones they are just quartz stones. They have been taught the difference but they like to just pretend they are seer stones. They are still pretty young so I don’t see the harm in them pretending. We are just giving them a little information at a time. They know JS translated the B of M with a seer stone but not that he put his head in a hat (yet). This is a site I found interesting that talks about seer stones http://www.howlatm.com/seer_stones.html

bridget_night wrote:

My husband just gave me a great analogy this morning that would describe our group perfectly. He said it is like driving on a road that looks really good and you believe is taking you somewhere but suddenly you find some ugly potholes in the road. Some people when they hit the potholes decide never to take this road again. Others decide to not only not take the road again, but complain to everyone, everywhere what a horrible road this is. But, there are those who continue on the road because it does lead to good places and things, but are much more cautious to avoid hitting the same potholes yet still enjoy the journey. We do know the church and its leaders have some flaws, but the road is still good enough to travel on.

I love this analogy. It think it’s a step up from the one I came up with with my DH. This was mine: I compared it to the relationship people have with their dogs. People get a lot of fulfillment out of having a dog. Some like getting out doors, some like the socializing with other dog owners, some like the companionship ect. However, no matter how much you love your dog there’s always the dog poop to deal with. Similarly the church provides for us certain fulfillment but there is always going to be unpleasentries to deal with. (censored version)

Old-Timer wrote:

Best picture, btw. Anyone who uses something from PB is ok in my book.

😆 Thanks

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