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How about… “They are trying” but said in a sarcastic tone! I agree that they seem to care more about appearances than they do actually living up to them. That was the point I was wanting to make.
They are trying… My oldest daughter has a best friend who’s family came here six years ago as refugees from Sudan. She gets a lot of modeling and small acting jobs from the church to be the token “black girl” in their PR campaigns. She is a rare commodity in these parts!
cwald wrote:Curt, my experience is similar to yours.
same here.
My mother reads her scripture daily, attends they temple weekly, and to my knowledge has never missed a Sunday without attending church. Ask her if JS has ever practiced polygamy and she will assure you he has not. Ask her what a peepstone is and she will say “A what?” My mother may be ignorant to church history but I have a hard time believing that she is in the minority. She is the majority.
Just because the church will sneak in a small reference to something in The ensign every few years, does not mean they are being open. It is almost as if is done just so they can say “hey, we have nothing to hide, we mentioned something about that in the new era back in 1997”
How about all the members in non-english speaking countries? How much information do they have easy access to other than what the church provides?
I get it though, it’s all about image control. It is for the “greater good” to keep all information “faith promoting”
I think Ray runs in more educated circles than the rest of us. I could be wrong. I probably just run in more ignorant circles than the rest of you. That’s how I feel sometimes. A lot of times.
Sorry… I’ll stop my rant now.
Thanks for the info Brian. I also read part of the puremormonism blog earlier today, and was interested in this book… but my reading list is very long so I don’t know when I would get to it. I didn’t notice there was a Mormon Stories interview, so I will check that out. cwald wrote:Ray and Brian, that is all fine and dandy here, but your personal line of revelation doesn’t matter. It is not the same as your priesthood leadership line, therefore it must be from a “difference” source than god. Costa is a GA and what is said from the podium at GC is “scripture” and you and I are obligated to head it if we want to be in full fellowship and good standing in the church. “..follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.”
cwald… your sarcasm is cracking me up a bit, but at the same time I am totally feeling your pain and frustration. I really am. I have no answers, but I do empathize.
What I do or think really won’t make a big difference, but maybe it will make a small difference… for me, my family and maybe a few others. It is exhausting to live in a state of frustration, so I am trying my best to focus on how I can be a better person… by MY definition.
Old-Timer wrote:Just as an aside: It will be interesting to see how some of the more liberal members of the Church who have been begging for a Hispanic apostle for some time react if that apostle takes Elder Packer’s place as the most conservative voice among the 12. Just sayin’.
agreed. I have followed Costa’s career very closely over the years because he is a good family friend. (My husband spent over half of his mission in Brazil serving as his assistant… even spent a lot of time helping him to learn english) I really feel like he is being conditioned and prepared to take his place in the 12. He is very conservative. Although I love the man, this talk made me sick to my stomach… literally!
Interesting story… immediately following this talk I jumped onto facebook. I was trying to take my mind off of my frustrations. I have a friend on there who is of another faith, but his wife is LDS. He had just posted this:
“Since the LDS General Conference is opening with a number of thoughtful talks on the subject of obedience, I thought I would share an address by Mr. Ian Semple on the same subject. This was given in 1991, and offers some unique perspectives that I think many people will find enlightening.”http://bahai-library.com/talks/semple.obedience.html I thanked him for the post and told him I would read the article because Costa’s talk did not sit well with me, and I could use some additional perspective. He them sent me a PM back that said I was actually the reason he posted what he did. He was also listening to Costa’s talk, and suddenly felt impressed to find and post this address for me. Proof that you don’t have to be LDS to be in tune with the spirit. Anyhow, it was a pretty good article on the subject of Obedience if any of you want to check it out.
Excellent talk Ray, thanks for bumping this thread up… I missed it the first time around. cwald wrote:Why are we not hearing this from the pulpit every single week, and every single conference? Throw out all the nonsense and lets start teaching and living the gospel the way it’s suppose to be done – the way the Jesus prescribed. We (the LDS church) are not doing it.
When I gave my talk the other week I couldn’t believe how many people commented to me about how “brave” and how “courageous” my talk was. After I got thinking about this it really bothered me. I didn’t say anything in my talk that was outrageous in any way. All I said was that we need to be more like Christ, and to love everyone. The fact that it was “brave” to give the message to love everyone it really quite pathetic. You are right… these are the kinds on messages that we need to be hearing every week. This is exactly why it might be good for people like us to remain a part of the church. We need to be the messengers of the gospel of Christ. We need to be the change that we seek.
It can be frustrating, and after conference I was about ready to call it quits, but I think I still have a little more in me.
cwald wrote:80% of the other conference talks were insulting, negative, “false”, and put the church’s spiritual progress back AT LEAST 20 years.
Time will tell, but I actually think that these GC talks may have actually lit a fire in a lot of our unorthodox members, and they are ready to come out, and speak out! Maybe progress was actually propelled!
Cwald…. can’t tell you how happy I am to hear you will likely still be around. I have been a lurker over at NOM for years, and even recently signed up so I could make comments, but I find it is easy to get caught up in the negativity that is over there.
I like it here… for the most part we are all here because for one reason or another it is important that we find a way to find a place for ourselves among a church we may no longer believe in, or we need to keep our relationships with members of the church. I am here because I love my family.
I love to hear from you on this site… your comments help us all to think, and to have great discussions.
Thank you for all of the positive responses. I am quite the introvert, so giving this talk was a pretty big deal for me. There are a lot of things around these parts that need to be said but never are, and I was feeling feisty enough to say them! I have been wanting to start my own blog for a while so I can blab all my random thoughts into the great void. Anyhow, I posted my talk on there. Here is a link…
http://tinymosquito.blogspot.com/2010/10/through-gods-eyes.html Once had some missionaries come talk to our ward who suggested the we have them do the “dirty work”. If we had a friend or neighbor who we thought might be ready for an invite to church, or to receive discussions to just give the missionaries a heads-up, make a casual introduction, and then let the missionaries do their thing. This way if it didn’t go over well you could just say “I’m so sorry about those stupid missionaries, they can be so forward sometimes!” Then you can go on and continue being their friend without any awkwardness or strain on your friendship. canadiangirl wrote:My talk was on “keeping the world out of our homes” I basically said to embrace the beauty of the world and expose our kids to all the wonderful things the world has to offer us.
love it!
Old-Timer wrote:I told you so.
😆 It’s really something how the ignorant, hardcore, old school members tend to be the most outspoken… to the point that it really seems that is all that exists in the ward. It’s sooooo nice to know that is not the case! Maybe others like me in my ward will start to speak out a little too.
More good news… my husband is starting to come around a bit too… He is (almost) being somewhat supportive. I am no longer afraid he will leave me over my beliefs. (something that he use to hint at)
SilentDawning wrote:I got this idea from a movie I watched called “Conversations with God”. I used it in a spiritual thought in PEC and it was met with quite a stony stare from my Bishop at the time, that I was introducing ideas from non-traditional LDS sources….
I love the “Conversations with God” series… have read all his books. Both Neale Donald Walsh as well as Gregg Braden (whom you also mentioned, and I really love!) have some very powerful insights on prayer, and how it works. In fact, because of these men I have drastically changed the way I pray. I am a huge believer in the power of prayer and it now has a much different meaning to me.
As much as I love CwG, I would be very hesitant to directly share from his book in church. (although I am good at sneaking in random thoughts during discussions) His books are pretty much viewed as big-time blasphemy. (I have never seen the movie, but the book gets into such topics as… the nature of God, no satan/no hell, reincarnation, extra-terrestrials, and a lot on sex!) I did once bring one of his books to church which I read to myself when I would get bored. I am not sure if anyone noticed, or what they thought.
