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rebeccad wrote:Quote:
i have heard of one instance of one LDS congregation rebuilding a church for a congregation of another denomination after a natural disasterAfter a natural disaster here for 4 weeks our SM consisted of taking the sacrament, getting our work assignments, then going out and cleaning up. I could do that for church every week. I have talked to many other people who feel the same way.
*claps hands* this is the kind of thing I was talking about. The current mandate someone somewhere said(I can’t remember who) “being a Mormon means coming from a meeting, in a meeting, or going to a meeting”.
This is just way to many meetings(talking) instead of action. If its about the meetings then we have silent our time talking and not acting.
I hear you wayfarer and SD. In a ideal world. People wouldn’t condescend towards others. It exist though, and I realize I can’t fight it. Just try to live as an example. Inside a Japanese community my friend Hiroshima was in my first Japapese sentences had 2 distinct reactions. Some referred to it as not bad, others refered to it as speaking very well for a non Japanese person. I’m sure they meant well but it sounds condescending from the outside in even though I don’t think they meant it that way. I hope we can all just learn to support one another instead of analizing to death each other. I’ve been through that personally and seen it done to others hundreds of times. I’m not a fan of labels or putting people in a box so we can feel comfortable with ourselves. People will always exist that feel the need to put up defense barriers to shun those not within there walls of belief to feel safe. In situations like this. If people feel the need to dominate I let them. So long as they don’t do anything to me. If they reach a point where they are ready to cooperate together and work as a team , I’ll be ready. In the mean time I just see a person to full of pride to cooperate and work as a team. I’ll say my peace in a peacefully way, when their ready to drop their defenses and work together I’ll be there. I’m going to quote the best institute teacher I ever had here. The church isn’t a place for the well or perfect. It’s a hospital for the sick.” summarizing that the gospel or church is a place learn and grow and perfect, not for the already perfected(which doesn’t exist here). He was pointing out the charity that needed to happen within the church to others who were different or on different levels of faith or the journey. Hi Benlin. Well, to be fair there are members who don’t listen at all or care about GA. However making countless obedience speeches won’t change that and probably cause further distance from them. The TBM on the other hand further thier perfection view to an unhealthy unobtainable level. A title does not change anyone or make them near perfect. We can’t change what others think(nor do I really want to) but we can change ourselves to a reasonable obtainable level to acheive as a goal. Heber13– the irony of what you just said in comparison to a church teaching about a young man you asked his GA why he needed to come “every” Sunday to church and the GA took the hot coal out of the fireplace and placed it by itself to cool down is ironic lol. Yes I have watched countless people hold grudges for thier entire life. I quickly decided I didn’t want to be a part of the exmo or other negative sites that seem to only help that. That’s why I’m
So glad for this sites more positive approach but without faking all is well in the land of Zion(I was actually told to
do that by the SP and Bishop when I told them what was going on in the ward).
Brian– I really like this site. The mybrid of views while respecting one another is really unquie especailly in the Mormon world. You can find many exmo sites and many all is perfect in the land of Zion sites but very few maybe all isn’t perfect in the land of Zion but it is our home and maybe we can make it work for us sites. This Mormon matters and Mormon stories are my lds mainstay sites now. Moderating these sites is a lot tougher then the other 2 types. I’m happy to see a diverse background of people talking and respecting each other. It makes me feel good to see that inside Mormon culture or people.
Greetings canuck! You touched on a subject that is very dear to me. In large part because I went through the very TBM to multi -cultural LDS journey. It is a process that can not be forced. There is actually a Canadian film which strikes very similar to my own journey of understanding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr-GBAgTjXA&feature=youtube_gdata_player ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr-GBAgTjXA&feature=youtube_gdata_player One of my favorite movies based on one of my favorite books. The journey of a man who by accident is forced into a situation he can not escape and goes through a process of learning to accept help and certain ways of life he strongly rejected as being unfamiliar to him through the local Inuit women.
Now in my life I try to help others understand each other that are unfamiliar with each others traditions and cultures.
My own fiancé is from argentinia. Whos own culture and way of doing things even inside LDS is very different to mine.
I never even heard of Mate until I was in argentinia lol. But suffice it to say just letting down my own barriers and be open to learning and understanding with patience and love have helped us establish a strong connection and foundation.
It is far from a TBM thing. Quite a few cultures shun outside ideas and culture dufferent then thier own.
What you went through is frustrating and has merit to those feelings. Equally they ate just not used to many of these new shifts in culture and may be acting out of fear of feeling thier own culture being threatened by it.
While you can’t change how they react you can influence by not pushing views on them(not that you are) and being patient and loving along the way as they hopefully begin to open up and not feel thier culture threatened. I hope it works out. My own soon to be marriage will be a merging of cultures. I intend to do what’s best for it and not what others think is best. I hope this helps in some small way. Snow walker was touching for me in a very real way to my own situation growing up which was similar.
Quote:wayfarer wrote: I seriously reject the idea that an enlightened god will punish those who seek the truth.
After being raised in a very intolerant TBM society I began to
Adopt there views. When I reached my mid-late teens I began to have friends from many countries and many faiths.
My views changed over time as I began to accept my friends weren’t lost or influenced by evil. I began to try to understand and learn all about them and accept the truths and adapt the good parts of thier culture to my own life. I began to realize we all had truths and things to contribute. I began journey to what people refer to as very “international”.
In short, I have been transformed by my significant international experience and can never go back to the belief that punishes those you seek the truth. I have learned to accept what I have learned from each cultures own truth. When I tied to fight against it at first i was in internal conflict until I just learned to accept what I learned.
I’m curious wayfarer. Do you have a lot of international cultureal experience?
On a personal experience basis I will always remember 2 things said to me. When my mother told me I was the most non jusdgemental person she ever knew. And when my best friend who is an Orthdox Jew said to me one day, do you know why we are friends? I couldn’t think of anything in particular besides getting along well. I told him I really didn’t know. He said to me because you are the only one who has never back stabbed me once even in my family. Those are positive things to say about the teachings and principles in the faith but… Both of them did not make me feel good to hear. In fact I didn’t want to hear it because it made me feel very sad suddenly. I don’t know if I want to hear or create or live in a works where only a select few % that belong to a particular religion(LDS) stand out. I pray for a world where in as much as possible everyone from all walks of life love and help each other. I see a lot of good work going through our religion(mostly to serve each other) but I see a lot of that as well among friends of mine from many religions and many countries and cultures. Which I am grateful and not sad to see. But we could Definitely work on helping others outside our faith and community…. A LOT! Not by adding even more time away from home an addition to our already many meetings and service. But by accepting a simple truth…. “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
“And behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.” Mosiah 2: 17 Some how that tends to get narrowed to within the church instead of the within the world.
Serving others even outside of the faith should count at such, you could even think of it as a calling. I think it should still count as a holy service not independent of regular service within the church to be done only after you have done your church fulfillment of callings inside the church if you have enough time left.
I’ve actually asked myself this a lot because after learning the history through acident by our own PR department 4 months ago. The article about a BYU professor I think it was that was either still teaching or made a comment about the black doctrine and priesthood teachings of old. The PR response was that it was http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/53617297-180/church-bott-mormon-priesthood.html.csp ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/53617297-180/church-bott-mormon-priesthood.html.csp I have many old official church and unofficial GA books books dating pre 1968 and even pre 1950 and before. and I knew the response to be a very slick PR response. So I went consulting the books to make sure I didn’t remember wrong. That led to doing much research and led to me here finally. So my point with this is if our PR department sounds like a response Clinton made during the Monica lewinsky trail then how will that make the church look different in the positive way that he was looking for if we in our public statements and PR campaign look Judy like another religion or business.
Welcome! There in there lies the irony. If a person recieves the revolution or answer that it is true then what? It’s true inspiringly? It’s historically true? It’s true but has some inaccuracy from being written down by humans who being human and not writing it down as it happens(and the brain being what it is and does with age and time) the memery more vague then at the time of the event that took place? Now it doesn’t seem so easy the answer. True? True in what sense? I’m not saying this to sound confusing but it really is how I feel the answer can get misinterpreted. I don’t know. What I do know is that it doesn’t have to be all true or even historical (or Historicly accurate) to give significant meaning and purpose to it in my life. To me it helps me be a better person and that’s all that really matters to me. That and to reject anything that can be disproven and accept things that give meaning to our lives in a spiritual and positive way. If people want to defend the honor or what ever they feel they need to with the BOM that’s fine. But to me those semantics are really illrelavent. It will all be sorted out in the end. I’m just here on earth to do the best I can and love my fellow spiritual brothers and sisters and love god(does it really matter what he looks like?) I think by just being here on this site shows in express in interest to try to figure it all out. We may never do that until die and that’s fine. It’s the struggle of the journey and profession that is the important thing.
Welcome Benlin. In my heart of hearts I believe in Zion. Or at least the idea of struggling to achieve a place such as it. The idea that we may progress for it everyday. Not by waiting for it to appear out of nowhere one day. But by each doing our part to progress towards it. By telling ourselves, if not me then who? A place where we all build and uplift each other. Serve each other. Strengthen the weak, don’t strive or seek to get gain over another. And realize that there are no big or small tasks, all are equally important. I believe we all can start by doing our part to make the works a better place by following the 2 greatest commandments. Historicly in the old testament it was never a commandment. Just a cultural thing that god allowed until king David and Solomon let it get out of hand. We have no way of knowing for sure if it was or not a new commandment but it certainly wasn’t a commandment of old. I respect 2 consenting adults if they wanted to practice it during that time. Forced or coerced or sneaking around without consent is most unchrist like though. Certainly not godly or virtuous. So I choose to see it without those things happening if their is evidence to support that thought. Polyandry was a sin equal to death even in Abraham’s , David’s time. So I choose not to think that we did that if their is evidence to sudjest we didn’t. Their is also evidence to sudjest that JS “repented” of it weeks before being jailed saying he felt it was a revolution of the devil. I don’t know. It just seems that publicly he spoke out against it and in D&C supported this by denouncing polegamy. I just don’t want to get caught in any lying for the lord business side of things. What ever the reality is, we all make mistakes. We all sin. Just different ones. The idea is to strive to be better everyday. In my heart I believe that is what JS was doing or trying to do. But he, just like everyone else still made mistakes. Well, I feel it would kind of clash with the ” my name is _____ and I’m a Mormon PR campaign. One one hand showing how everyday “normal” we are and them turn around and make revelations that don’t quite “jive” to new members and investigators. It could or even would confuse them to see this and then turn around shortly after and get a new or conflicting revolution. Possibly as well in today’s media where if you make a revolution and something doesn’t “gel” “click” or pan out it won’t get lost on them. It will be remembered and available everywhere. This would cause anyone in a prominent position to be cautious. With that said there are a number of really good quotes I have read in church history,journal of discourses that have really astounded me in a amazing way positively. I was thinking of starting a thread on unquie or genuine Mormon quotes that are positive and or unique especially from the JS or BY. With so much good lesser known quotes from the past. I think it would help to feel positive about some of our history by rejoicing I some of the lesser known good quotes. Old-Timer wrote:I love bc_pg’s answer. Focus on what the Lord’s work actually was during his ministry.
Talk about how he associated with and served those who were the outcasts of his society. Ask who the outcasts of our own society are. Ask if there are specific ways the group and the ward can reach out to and help those outcasts – not to “convert” them and generate baptisms, but simply to love and serve them unconditionally.
This. I love this statement. At least it is what I do to try to serve. I think everyone has different talents though and they should use them. Not to bring about as much baptisms as possible but to be a shining example. I’ve watched too many converts or inactives get tossed aside because they were different or not in the “clique”. I have seen many many “cliques” and the shunning of others not a part of them inside various wards. We should try to change or work on this. If not us then who? Help new members feel more welcome and part of the fold, people outside the clique as well. Not just for the first month. A little effort here and there helps so much to advance the work of Christ.
Thank you for the welcome. As this is my first time even posting on the Internet I find it quite interesting and ironic, especially since I have been using the Internet since 1992 lol. I want to say despite my weakness in typing I hope what ever I say may not come across as as anger or too negative. In person I tend to talk about things as observing as a matter of factly (as in personal experience and observation rather then emotional. I tend to be rather drained of emotion in recent years through dealing with different members hostility negativity. But I also recognize the beauty and charity other members have used to uplift each other. I’m going to parser or erase the post on church finances because I don’t want anything to possibly lead back to my father that may possibly create hardships or seem like I have a axe to grind. I don’t. I just want to embrace all the beauty and positivity in the church and life while sorting or shirting aside the negative aspects in church and life. I think if people hold anger in their hearts for what ever reason will only lead it to consume them and have less love to offer in their relationships in as much as they allow themselves to remain angry. I really do love this sites positive atmosphere and respect to each others different views.
