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“Does questionable personal conduct nullify a prophetic calling?” If this were the case it would nullify all old testment prophetic callings and many of the new and BOM prophetic callings as well. And oviously and many modern prophets.
Tom, I have some reservations with your statement “Harmony IS truth.” I believe Harmony in your heart with your spirit and the spirit of god is truth. That does not always coincide with harmony with all others. In fact when others are not living with harmony in their hearts, then likely your actions of living with harmony within your own heart will emphasize their own disharmony. Typically when this happens people tend to blame their own disharmony on those that are living with harmony in their heart. What I tend to have problems with is when this blame comes my way I am motivated to act in ways that cause disharmony in my heart and I blame others for my disharmony and it becomes a vicious cycle.
Now I think I likely explained my thoughts as clearly as mud.
Thanks for this post. I think for the LDS church to be a healthy place for anyone it needs to be a choice, and on our terms. I love what you have done. Herodotus, This is a hard situation. Two years ago I was in the elder’s quorum. My Pres asked me to teach the fifth Sunday lesson on the Proclamation on the family. I do not believe it is inspired and some of it I see as blatantly untrue. I was not ready to completely come out with my issues. I fretted a long time before I went to him and asked if I could teach something else. I can relate.
My two cents is that I believe that when we get past the idea of “I have to”, it helps your psyche a lot. It sounds like initially you took this calling because “I have to”, then you thought about what you feel comfortable with and what you don’t. It sounds like there are really reasons beyond “I have to” that you wish to do this calling. If you can find those reasons and focus on why you choose to do them it will help.
I found when I figured out that I could come to church just because I wanted to – not because I am active, so I just go all the time – I was a much happier person. Also, when I can take an assignment because I choose to it can be enjoyable.
Ray, I agree with you on the new generation. What I find perplexing are the many of the generations old enough to remember well that claim no memory.
Your philosophy of not teaching the justification of the bigotry and only teaching the good stuff, has some very good company. This is very similar to the Book of Mormons teaching we should not teach secret condemnations. I may be very wrong, but I question this idea. How do we truly learn from history if we can not examine the thinking of intelligent good meaning individuals of the past who were mistaken so we can compare our thinking on other topics.
I just finished re-reading “To Kill a Mocking Bird”. Again I cried, but this time for different reasons. The completely illogical ideas of the perfectly respectable and intelligent citizenry of Maycomb county is way to similar to the ideas of so many Mormons in my life when justifying working to destroy the families of gay couples.
Most church teachings are clearly laid out clearly in the scriptures or expressly denoted in modern revelation. I find the exceptions seem to resonate uncomfortably. One being the justifications of with holding the priesthood and temple participation from worthy blacks, these were not only were taught widely among the membership but also taught by the leadership in confrence. The other being the church policies and it’s political actions against homosexuals, also taught widely amongst the members as well as from the leadership. I believe it is important to look closely at the mistakes of the past so we can clearly see the mistakes of the present and try to change them.
Thank you Herodotus and everyone for your welcome and support. I add my gratitude to the many others that have expressed here for this forum. The internet is a unique place to find like minded friends without being restricted by geography, publicity, or social confinement. Herodotus:
“To it’s credit, the Church is very good at back-peddling to whatever degree is needed to continue to survive. It will not allow itself to be so unmainstream that it risks falling apart, and I think the gay marriage issue is going to push the church to the point that it will have to cave, even if long after most conservatives churches have.”
I do stand in awe of the church’s ability to not only back-peddle, but to direct the membership to turn their actions and their views on a dime. I also find it simply amazing how forgetful and selective the church’s collective memory is.
For the church membership of the today polygamy was a merciful way to take care of widows and women unable to compete for a husband. And I find few that remember the openly bigoted explanations for blacks not holding the priesthood.
For many years I have been able to see why anyone non-lds would see the Mormons as a cult. I get questions all the time about Word of Wisdom, Garments, penalties, why would some one go to their Bishop about so many trivial things, any and all of these from an outside perspective seem cultish to me. Lately, what really seems cultish is the fear to think, that seems so pervasive. I have spoken to so many people that say my difficulties with the church policies are just a matter of misunderstandings they would be happy to clear up. As we talk they apparently think these issues can be cleared up by Sunday School answers, and when they are not people completely blank out and don’t hear anything I have to say. At some point I have found most of my fellow mormons are not willing to even walk through my questions. On many occasions when I am calm they suddenly start yell that I am unreasonable and can not let me finish a single sentence, akin to the grad school nah, nah, nah I can’t hear you, only frightened and angry. This response always scares me to death. These are often intelligent, seemingly open minded individuals that turn psyco really fast. I really don’t get it. This is what really seems cultish to me.
Ray, It also agree that homosexuals and heterosexuals should be treated the same in the church. The question is what is meant by that.
The Church claims that they do that now. Heterosexual members and Homosexual members are under disciplinary action for engaging in romantic association with those of the same sex. They are both allowed to be part of an opposite sex marriage and both forbidden to be part of a same sex marriage.
I personally do not believe this is equal treatment. Heterosexual members are free to be open about their orientation. Even celibrate it. Homosexuals are not.
Thank you,
Gail
MWallace57, Thank you. I love what you have said about addressing one another as friends. I have very rich friendships with people of both genders and sexual orientations. I believe you are right in that we view each other way too much in our culture, Mormon and American, through our gender and sexual rolls. I do not see post metaposal or gray hair as a negative discripter, but they certainly do not reveal anything about the true nature of a person. You are completely correct that often we use labels that tell us little or nothing about who a person is. I work with many adults with developmental disabilities. What most people don’t think about is that using their disability as a discripter tells you nothing about what they like, dislike, what they do in their spare time, what they choose to talk about, what kind of friend they are, or what they do for a living. I personally have dyslexia or am dyslexic. I really don’t believe this tells you much about myself. It does tell you some. I do not think any of us want to be known or restricted by one charismatic.
I wonder though what language helps our Mormon culture demystify the reality of more then one narrow sexual orientation and more than two sexual identities?
Brian, You make great points. I do believe that is how the term gay did get started, but it know has a different meaning, one that has been fully embraced by most homosexuals themselves.
I think of Albus Dumbledore. He told Harry “Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.” I think it is true. If Mormons are afraid to even say homosexuality, homosexual, gay, or anything like it in polite company we will always fear the concept and the people.
MWallice57, There is so much that the church’s doctrine would choose to ignore, like Klienfelders. So what are you doing to change the church?
Brian,
I do not think there are social sensitivity problems when we use words like heterosexual or straight in the church. I believe there should be non for using the terms homosexual or gay. I refuse to use any other terms and I am trying to have my fellow church members feel as comfortable with them as heterosexual and straight.
I sent and e-mail to Elder Christensen after his homophobic remarks at the Evergreen conference this fall. I received an e-mail from some staffer that said he was assigned to deal with this issue. I e-mailed him a couple of times then called him. We spoke for 45 minutes. I explained my issue with the term SSA. By the end of the conversation he started using the terms homosexual and gay, at least for me. It is not that every time he said SSA I corrected him. I explained once and then just used the other terms. I believe homosexual and gay are socially sensitive. The non socially sensitive thing is our Mormon culture.
Just me, Thanks for the quotes.
Brian,
You have hit one of my struggles. I believe Mormonism is my culture, and being part of that culture I have a responsibility to effect that culture in positive ways. What I struggle with is How. I believe that the church has done all they can to make it make it very difficult to affect peoples attitudes on this issue. I have had people tell me it is just like blacks in the church. That it may have been difficult for a black person to be part of the church but it broke down barriers. I do believe bigotry is broken down the more people actually get to know people in a particular minority. When a black person came to church in the 70’s members may have gotten to know blacks for the first time, this brakes down barriers. But the church discourages homosexual members from coming out to their wards. I believe there are gay members in every unit of the church but how many members know there is a gay member of their ward? How many know that their home teacher or their Sunday school teacher is gay? Very few. I had a talk with my Bishop one day. He was apologizing for hurtful things that had been said in sacrament meeting. These things being said he did not believe were true. He did not stop them for being said. I ask what would you do as bishop if I bore my testimony on this subject, saying the things I have shared with you which you believe are true? He said he would have to stop me. This frustrates me.
I also believe the term SSA or SGA are a problem as well. Like the term collored for black it is not equivalent to the term used for the majority and therefore implies pathology. Elder Oaks introduced this term saying that if we use the term homosexual to describe a person it implies that they have no choice when it comes to sexual behavior. This is lunatic if it were true it would say that as a heterosexual man I have no choice but to have sex with women. Also it relegates these desires to something like your desire to eat chocolate or have a big mac. Sexual desires are something much more significant that other desires. Yes, we can choose our sexual behavior, but we do not choose our sexual orientation. Neither heterosexual or homosexual people choose their oriantation. The only time people in the church typically talk about homosexuals is when they talk about the evil homosexual agenda or the homosexuals are destroying the family. I am sorry, I could go on and on, but my question is how do I or a homosexual member effectively reach out and be that bridge or a positive influence in this culture?
I see the internet as a positive forum for this type of reaching out to change minds, but it seems very limited. We typically only reach like minded individuals using the internet. How do we persuade the religious right of the church? How do we expose them to the reality of the experience of their own homosexual brothers and sisters?
I think these are vital questions. We have a culture that drives three times the number of gay men to suicide than straight me. We have a culture that tells me as a straight man married to a gay woman that if I had faith I never would have divorced. I should have continued a relationship that did not work. I should have turned my back on the happiness of the woman I love as well as my happiness, but most importantly the happiness of our children. How do we help our church and our fellow members she how our system is fundamentally broken in regards to sexual orientation or gender identity?
