Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I guess I’m not sure what’s changing. Instead of having a list of families to visit, we’re assigned persons to “minister” to. Instead of having a monthly or quarterly PPI with quorum or group leaders we’ll be having quarterly meetings to report on persons needs. Instead of being mindful of families needs we’re to be mindful of persons needs so we can “minister” to them. Instead of families having HTs and VTs assigned they’ll have someone from the EQ and RS called to look after them. I’m not trying to be difficult or snarky but just what is changing? What I find hard to reconcile is Bishop’s success, by his account, as a mission president in Argentina and in other high church callings and his admitted abuse of women over the years. Is this a case of repentance, forgiveness, and blessings alternating with transgression or is it priesthood actions being recognized by God in spite of the holders personal unworthiness? As long as modesty continues to be defined by dress, stop and consider which arouses more unholy and impure thoughts, total nudity at a nude beach or nudist resort or a woman or man in a thong bikini/swimsuit. I recall back in the day when Marion D. Hanks was “sidelined” and the talk was that it was because he had become to popular. I fear that in part this might be the reason for Elder Uchtdorf’s release from the presidency. I’m of an age when decisions of courts were announced in priesthood meeting and the usual reason given was “conduct unbecoming a member”. What I’ve heard is that what he did wasn’t that bad but that someone didn’t like him so he was excommunicated. Leadership roulette at the top. Quote:SamBee wrote
Now my opinion. Freemasonry is partly preparation for death. So too is the temple ceremony. It reminds us we are mortal.
I’m a master mason so no argument there.
Quote:* Masonic lodges and temples are frequently used for public functions.
The Nauvoo Temple was used for dances, as I recall. Once lodge is on session outsiders are excluded, though. The temple once dedicated is always on session
Quote:* There are multiple degrees. Properly only three, but numerous other ones. Much more complex than our one. You can belong to more than one lodge e.g. the Shriners are a special order.
If his dues are current, a mason can attend any lodge in the world. In the temple there are five degrees if you include the second anointing. Each of the four steps need to be completed in order to complete the endowment just as an initiate to masonry needs to be an entered apprentice (1st degree), then a fellowcraft (2nd degree) before becoming a master mason (3rd degree).Quote:Conversely there are aspects in the temple ceremony which seem to be quite different.
* Jesus Christ is mentioned throughout.
For masons it’s God or the Grand Architect of the Universe.
Quote:* The ceremony takes place en masse, rather than one person at a time.
The regular business meetings are en masse but degrees are conferred to one person at a time. Plus in the temple solemn assemblies are large groups.
Quote:* There is a film/stage play.
The 3rd degree includes a morality play.
Quote:* Our robes are significantly different.
Thankfully so.
Quote:* We only have limited dealings with the One World Order.
It would be wise not to forget that.You might want to check out Michael Homer’s Joseph’s Temples
https://www.amazon.com/Josephs-Temples-Relationship-Freemasonry-Mormonism-ebook/dp/B00SV0JIYA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511053709&sr=8-1&keywords=joseph%27s+temples SamBee wrote:
Quote:A ritual that is practically plagiarized from the freemason initiation- something that not even the most stalwart apologists can link to Solomon’s Temple.
They already have!
I’m sorry but have they plagiarized it or have they linked it to King Solomon’s Temple or both?
For clarification when does church discipline come into the picture? If there’s gender reassignment surgery? As to callings I assume Primary and SS are off the table but library, RS callings not involving teaching, or activities committees would be ok. It will be interesting what your SP and area authority seventy have to say. The “gender is eternal” part of the POF might need some reinterpretation. It’s hard enough when you believe it but when the foundational stories don’t add up anymore, it makes for a long three hours. If we didn’t have good friends and a great bishop, it wouldn’t be doable. I think the decision was made to not go through the time and expense of new lessons and just try and improve the teaching, hence the new “Teaching the Savior’s Way” program. The powers that be likely feel that even though the lessons haven’t changed in 18-19 years, nobody teaches then the same so why bother to update them. After reading Ray’s comment I decided to go back and watch DHO’s talk and it didn’t really upset me. I think it’s because I’m more out than in these days and because I think that’s just what everyone else on the stand believes even though they may not say it. Other GA’s may make it a little more soft around the edges but the church will never want a happy same sex couple in church upsetting what they see as the only true and living image of what a family is supposed to look like. you lost me at: polygamy, especially after I read Annie Clark Tanner’s autobiography
BYU falsely accused my niece’s husband for fraud and had his membership record annotated without there being a formal counsel held.
Joseph Smith and Fanny Alger, et al.
Modesty for pre-schoolers
My second mission president, BKP
you had me at hello:
When my first mission president, Truman Madsen recognized me and called me by name after ten years when we bumped into each other in the SL airport.
Members of my ward.
Every bishop I’ve ever had.
As I see it the emphasis on modesty in dress is to try and keep people from seeing others in an unhealthy, sexualized way and in doing that help to reduce pornography and eventually immoral and unchaste behavior. To whit Elder Oakes comment that immodest dress in girls makes them pornography to young men. IMHO the best way to achieve that end is to start with an open door home and exposure of all family members to normal healthy nudity. Seeing the body as it is without the stigma of sexualization would go a long way to help people, especially children, see the human body as normal. The next step for me is chaste social nudity where people can enjoy the benefits of being nude without the judgment that goes with comparing yourself to an unrealistic social standard while in a safe and welcoming environment. Nudism/naturism is a great social leveler, a real education, and a lot of fun and if indulged in with the right frame of mind, not even remotely sinful. Beefster wrote:In my forays into the philosophies of nudism, I have come to confirm a truth I have known all along, but with a new depth in perspective: the human body is a beautiful and good creation of God. Sexuality is beautiful and God-given for the happiness of mankind. There are no ‘naughty’ parts of the body. No one part is more sacred than another and there is no need to be ashamed of what you have. Of course, you can always work to renovate your temple (e.g. losing weight, getting muscles) and feel free decorate and adorn it with clothing and/or makeup. Bodily, sexuality, and even nudity taboos are largely counterproductive.
I feel the underlying principle of modesty is more about the messages your clothing sends than about what skin is exposed. Some clothing draws attention to certain body parts, usually those associated with sexuality- thus elevating those parts of the body to a higher status, thus sexually objectifying said person. Clothing that does this is immodest. The rules we set for the most part line up with this… Except for shoulders. Bare shoulders draw attention to… nothing in particular. If anything, they’re really only possibly an issue for muscular men (and women). If we taught the principle rather than a bunch of rules, individuals could make that judgement themselves.
Let the church say amen!
