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I will miss you cwald. I have often felt that we are kindred spirits. Strong affirmations to “wellness” is all you pursue. Live always with the parameters of the four sacred mountains… Wow, following this thread takes considerable time… Living in paradise (California), I often get visitors from Utah. It happened this week, a handsome young couple (one of which has a father high up in the church in SLC). We supped together and talked at length about the pathways we currently tread. They are both pursuing masters. They are young, bright and diverse in their educational paths. I was rather low key as to my own current place in the Cosmos, but soon became aware they already knew of my “liberal views” (as opposed to the absolute TBM position I had lived with for decades). I wondered how they knew, but left it alone. They shared how they wished their father was lighten up and consider a new world view. They then asked directly what changed me?
I don’t lie. I said that Proposition 8 changed my association with the church forever. I explained what I experienced in my own stake. They were spell-bound. Often they said, “that’s so revealing, that’s so interesting.” They asked if I would ever consider returning to the church (they know I hold one borderline calling, and attend part of my block). I told them no, I would never pay a full-tithing or seek a temple recommend again. I would be as active as I choose, enjoy church friends, help as I could, and probably my culture would always be Mormon, but integrity is now my pathway to God. They said that prop 8 has been the worst PR disaster in a hundred years. They felt my SP/ecclesiastical leaders went way over the top (you don’t think?).
Far to soon our time was finished. We hugged and expressed our love toward each other. Would that the church would listen to this generation, my own thirteen grandchildren included (five currently in BYU colleges).
John Dehlin kept me in the church for an additional year or two. I am a great fan of his. I think of him in Native American terms, one of the “young warriors” as opposed to the “ancient chiefs.” It is the young warriors for example who risk everything on the battle field. The old ones mostly watch from the hilly parameters, safe from harm. If John and others like him could have changed the absolute thinking in Salt Lake, the exodus from the church we know is occurring, might have been lessened. After all, “Young men shall see visions (or is it dream dreams),” whatever. John loved the church. We mostly all did once. He fought a longer battle than most of us… I continue to listen to and love Mormon Stories Podcast. Wow, I will probably get slammed for this, but I’m really old and most folks won’t kick old dudes when they are already lying on the payment… ha! I couldn’t help but think, that in adding more paragraphs to the original “StayLDS” article (tailoring is another term), we are finding it necessary to add some meat with the milk. An LDS history buff, I know of so many sections of the D&C that were added extensively to by Joseph Smith, even after being published in the original “Book of Commandments.” It always bothered me, as if the original was deficient in some way. Has the idea of an “addendum” to the original article been considered? Another example of tailoring is the recent changing of the subject lines in the BofM, to dispose of the American Indian Lamanite problem. Also helpful, the unannounced decision to not mention Lamanite geography/parameters over the pulpit at GC.
I handed so many copies of the original StayLDS article out to bishoprics and TBM family. I hate to do a “corrected” copy. Just thinking through my fingers folks… Shalom.
I was researching genealogy with the man who was appointed by stake leadership to lead my ward’s proposition 8 campaign recently. He knew of my opposition and as we sat at a computer, asked why I openly raised my opposition in the ward. I answered honestly, “two gay brothers, one gay son.” He leaned closer and said; “I knew you had good reason to may a stand. I didn’t agree either, but was afraid to refuse the call. Isn’t it interesting how the issue badly damaged the church’s image.” Thanks Ray. I understand much better now. I like you have only had good conversations with John. I think he felt bad when I couldn’t continue the middle path, but always offered continued friendship and understanding. “John is incredibly complex, and that includes being mercurial. In a way, he’s an idealist of the highest order – and that type of person almost never is satisfied with the status quo. That type of person sees the bad constantly and has a hard time acknowledging the good. John knew he needed to try to focus on the good, and he tried to do so, but it’s almost impossible for him to do that, since he’s a “visionary man” and a “change agent” at heart and a very emotional person. John never was a good fit here, and he wasn’t a good fit at Mormon Matters…” RAY, Thank you for your opinion regarding JD. I personally can’t visualize him as one who sees bad constantly. My association with him has always reflected the positive in human endeavors. He was (and is) a role model in unconditional acceptance of the diverse decisions we all must make in a lifetime.
I hope all his associates, former/current, will wish him well in whatever path he chooses to follow. He certainly helped me along my rocky path when I needed a flashlight…
PS: GBSmith, please note, you and I have written the exact same number of postings side by side above. How about those apples?
If your young children are listening to how wicked their parents are, alluding to “prison,” etc., then I would take my children and find a faith community which lifts mankind by focussing on the grace of Jesus Christ and his message of love. Familial love and togetherness is so much more important than organized religion. At least that is how I see it. cwald, I totally agree. When an ICON leaves, it sometimes dents our position/mobility to continue on.
I hope all who contribute financially to Mormon Stories will continue to do so. If you can get me to listen to four hours of interviews on diverse, often very alternate Mormon subjects, you know I am hooked on the MS website…
I send peace & love affirmations into the wind, hoping they will fall upon JD, in what must be a difficult place in his journey.
Oh yes, the Mormon buffet. I visit it often. Little secret, you can take certain things previously plucked from the buffet to your plate, and return them to the buffet, if you realize they are less appetizing than you thought. Also, you may decide you like “turnips,” and pick them as a late entry to your plate. Buffets are often open for extended hours… it’s all good. I will definitely continue to support Mormon Stories. I learn from all the interviews. I do wonder about the future of StayLDS though… it seems an alternate pathway to so few… Hi Tom, I went back and read it carefully (I’m old, eyes play tricks). After saying he is no long active in the LDS church, he stated, “I don’t know that I ever will be again (doubtful, but possible I guess)”. So there is a little wiggle room, but then again, it has the sound of a door closing as well. I like John, and send affirmations of good will in this time of change, possibly absolute.
I listen to the entire interview several days ago. I returned today to read the comments. I was surprised to learn (approximately two hours ago) that John Dehlin has announced he is no longer active in the LDS church, nor is likely to attend again. I was shocked, but then maybe not so much. Life is like a box full of chocolates, you never know what you are going to find. I wish John the very best, on whatever path he follows…
