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It’s my understanding that the Grand Lodge of Utah wouldn’t allow Mormons to join them until around 1964. There were hard feelings concerning some issue. I used to have a volume entitled: Masonry and Mormonism, but have not seen it for awhile. Both groups seem to elevate titles as well. I no longer attend Sacrament meeting (only if a grandchild is speaking). I do attend later for one or two hours, on the computer in the family history room. Appropriately five women have chosen to hide out there with me (they don’t want to attend RS). We are friends and socialize. I help folks with their genealogy brick walls, it’s my calling. I don’t. Tithing to the LDS church ended with Proposition 8. I do however write checks to organizations that promote true civil rights for all Americans. ALso, I can’t seem to pass a Salvation Army kettle without reaching deep into my pockets of late, it must be the season. Happy Holidays my friends. SilentDawning wrote:I have a couple more:
Lesson 24: Mormon Truths Revealed by Hari Krishna (Brian)
Lesson 25: How To Give Blessings without Violating the Handbook: A Woman’s Guide (Old-Timer)
Additional offerings:
Lesson 26: How to be a undetected “Strangite” while holding membership in the LDS Church (George)
Lesson 27: How to raise my arm to the square to sustain the Brethren, while crossing my big toes to cancel voting for just one member of the same (George)
Heavens to Mergatroid, I’m “inactive?” Oh yes, guess I have been. Continue on… Notice to ward population: Grandchild Number 13 (a boy) arrived two weeks ago. The five oldest grandkids are all in BYU’s in three different states. Three of them are recently temple married. I could be a great grandfather shortly. I am truly a “patriarch” (though some would apply the word apostate in front of said title).
cwald wrote:SD – I love the idea!
I have even gone a step further and set up our ward. What do you think?
Bishop – Brian
1st Councilor – Heber13
2nd Councilor – Tom
HPGL – Orson
EQP – The DA —- Councilors – Spock & Sambee
Music Director – SD
RS Presidency – Flower, CG, BN
Young Women Presidency – Buttars, jwald,
Young Men’s President – Doug
SS presidency – Enoch, MH, Silentstruggle
Internet door greeter – Roy
Nursery Leaders – Ray & cwald
I have noted that my name was inadvertently left off this leadership roster. I should be written in as the “patriarch.” I am a natural at writing blessings (though I might ask a token donation). Also a plus, leading the mourners through old cemeteries with my gold-leafed shepherd’s cane (think of the movie Thorn Birds – if you are old enough). SHALOM to all.
I had an incident where a member of my bishopric demanded my email address and cell phone number as I stood to leave Sacrament Meeting (with my family surrounding). I had to embarrass myself and the councilor by turning him down. His demand was inappropriate, especially given the church’s teaching regarding agency. He actually got quite loud, said, “So you won’t give the bishop these contacts to reach you quickly?” I said quietly, “I will give my cell phone number to the bishop, but only to the bishop, I choose not to go on a ward list.” He stormed off, doesn’t speak to me now, months later. He has by the way, been released from the bishopric. I can’t imagine why President Packer’s talk was given the prime conference time slot on Sunday morning, when non-members are looking for a TV church service. I have stayed away from StayLDS for nearly two weeks now. The firestorm which fell upon the church has both sadden and depressed me. I decided this morning to see what others here were saying. Strange thing, I read a few entries on this thread and decided to drop it. I am tired of it all. I enjoyed the rescue of the miners ever so much more. I enjoy the signs of Fall which are finally appearing in my coastal California neighborhood. I saw the embarrassment in my grown kids faces, concerning the Packer address. I was having breakfast at one of their houses when he stated gays don’t exist. I stood near the big screen TV watching it all. When I turned back to seven members of my family sitting around the living room, no one said a thing. It was so telling. There was no spirit in the room, only familial love toward each other and I hope, toward my gay son and my two gay brothers, who do exist. I said good by and went to my Native American church meeting. It lifted up Christ Jesus and the two great commandments. The spirit was amazing, love was there. Just remember, your marriage first, church second. It is really, just the parking lot you chose to enter every Sunday. Others churches on the same street might have better preaching, singing, meditation, etc. There is something special about Mormon culture, but only if you can smile and laugh a lot. If people decide to make your family a project, disappear for a few weeks. They will respect boundaries better, when (or if) you return. Dare I mention Mormon tea? I know, it was sometimes called “Whorehouse” tea, being used against certain personal diseases. I think it has been banded by the FDA, for sports and dietary uses. I should have read the Wikipedia offering before commenting… In my last ward (several years ago), we had old guy who loved being a janitor (2nd greatest love, temple service). True be told, for social reasons, he was unemployable for any other job. Because ward members practiced love toward him, the light of Christ showed through and he labored hard. In his way of thinking, extra unpaid hours or duties, just frosting on the cake, a gift to the Lord. When he was told his job had gone away, I was worried over his mental state. Months later, I saw his old van, unwashed, front window half filled with debris, parked in a storage area. He appeared to be living in it. I wish I could give this story a happy ending, but it is what it is. cwald wrote:George – my Navajo brother – I’ve missed hearing your comments the last few months. Welcome back.
I think you probably have a pretty good sense of the topic, from your church service, and i think this comment sums up a ton of how I personally feel on this LDS issue – and could be said of many other problems I have with my LDS tribe.
Quote:Why is this allowed? What has happened to reason? To critical thinking? A loving ordinance has become a nightmare…
Amen brother.
cwald, my Navajo brother. Thanks for the welcome back. I had gotten into the Mormon Stories Podcasts. They are wonderful, but so time constraining. Recently I snuck back to StayLDS and immediately loved about ten of the ongoing threads. Thus my “rebaptism” into the website. In my “middle road” approach to all thing LDS, I’ve turned a little more in the direction of the church (be it a “trademark” of the Corporation of the President). My path is probably influenced by temple marriages of three grandchildren in fifteen months. Although I chose not to join them in the temple, still their love gave renewal and perhaps, a little hope for the future. My new grandson-in-law hugged me before the wedding last Friday and said he was looking forward to hearing first hand, my remembrances of a half century in the church. I could but smile (if he only knew). Time marches on, the church and I both age. I will eventually die. I wonder about the church? WIll the story of the “Shakers” repeat itself? Young love on the other hand springs eternal. It is the true mystery of life. Now, returning this thread to endless genealogies… (sorry)
Old-Timer wrote:george, can you provide a source? I’d be interested in seeing it.
This applies to LaLaLove’s MIL as well, but some people just say and do some really, really, really stupid things. (since it is flat-out impossible to do your genealogy back to Adam)
Hi Ray,
My knowledge of the subject comes from half a century of serious genealogical work. We used to review Nauvoo period baptisms, which were performed in the Mississippi River before the Nauvoo temple fount was finished, to try to avoid duplication of work. Only records of family living within your lifetime were allowed back then. Since many folks knew their grand parents or great grandparents as “Granny Smith” or “Grandpa Jones,” the records often reflected the same. Given names had not been learned as children, before old loved ones died. Instructions of the time were only good moral people were to have their work done, “no enemies of the church,” and certainly not murderers. I think the new FamilySearch.com might give you some data, also the fine old book, Temples of the Most High. I would look at the works of Alvin S. Dyer as well. Sorry, my old books are packed in a half dozen cardboard boxes and buried in a storage facility fifteen miles away, near my old home.
cwald wrote:If it makes folks feel better and more “secure” to do temple ordinances for decease loved ones and ancient relatives – it’s fine by me. I don’t see the point personally, and I really just don’t believe that god puts those kind of limits and restrictions on himself, and his children – that would amount to a fraction of a fraction of the souls on this planet being “saved.” Just doesn’t make much sense to me. Work for the dead is, IMO, a human theology (not gods) to teach people about their own roots and spiritual pathway.
IMO, It is a symbolic ritual that JS used to teach and “strengthen” the early saints, and I guess he NEVER intended for it to become what it has today. I think it is another one of those cultural commandments that has taken on a life of its own – much like the WoW
I totally agree. When Joseph Smith introduced baptisms for the dead, it was very limited in scope. You were baptized for the deceased relatives you knew, your parents and grandparents. It was important that you could confirm they were of good character and would accept spiritual truth. Murderers for example, were not to have work for them. Today, we baptize Hitler and the Nazi leadership, and claim to have lines back to Adam. We upset Jews by casting aside the horrors of war and use names of those who were lost for being Jewish. Finally, one jerk decides to baptize Jesus himself and seal Him to God and Mary (also sealing Mary to her second husband Joseph of course). Why is this allowed? What has happened to reason? To critical thinking? A loving ordinance has become a nightmare…
The church is just a church. It is the parking lot we turn into each Sunday. If he doesn’t want to go, it is his choice alone. It will not destroy his life, nor his spirituality. He will find love in his future, if he treats others with respect and tries to practice Christian principles. Thomas Monson didn’t serve a mission. Spencer Kimball didn’t marry in the temple. We LDS need to get over ourselves. We are part of the human family. We marry, reproduce, love our offspring. We raise them as best we can and eventually lay down our worries to become dust again. Critical long-range thinking is important…
